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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    st-andrews,quebec canada
    Posts
    62

    Lightbulb

    what about treating with vinegar?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Question

    Greetings . . .

    How do you use vinegar to treat AFB?

    ------------------
    Dave W . . .

    Hobbyist - 1 Hive
    First Package - Apr 03
    Broodnest - 3 Deeps
    Screened Bottom Board
    Apistan - Aug 18, 03
    Grease Patties - All year
    2003/04 Winter Loss - 0%
    See Forum1/HTML/001304, for ongoing mite counts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    st-andrews,quebec canada
    Posts
    62

    Post

    I heard about it this summer, something about sending vapourized vinegar through the bottom of the hives. Teramycin must have an alternative. Has anyone heard about it before?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    My understanding is that vaporized vinegar is said, in some of the beekeeping magazine ads, to treat for chalkbrood. Using vinegar to treat for foulbrood is a new one on me.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    Right you are, Buzz. I checked the Oct. issue of 'Bee Culture'; lo and behold there was an add for a vinegar vaporizer. Their words: "White vinegar is counteractive to chalk brood, nosema spores, foul brood and parasitic mites (varroa, tracheal)." I had seen the ads before but didn't pay much attention to them and never completely read them.

    They write you need to use white vinegar. Also, they state, spraying straight vinegar doesn't work, it must be volatized by steam. It also requires a 120 or 240 volt generator.

    Chalk brood is caused by a fungus. Would vinegar affect that? Who knows. Personally, I don't think it would do much to AFB or nosema spores. They don't actually claim anything other than "white vinegar is *counteractive* to...." (whatever that means). Maybe, it would have some effect on mites.

    It certainly hasn't been well publicized, so that right there has to cause some doubt about it's usefulness.

    Anyway, here is some contact information:
    Better Way Wax Melter Honey Processors Ltd.
    116 11th Street SE
    Altoona, IA 50009
    (515) 967-4952



    [This message has been edited by Dick Allen (edited November 02, 2004).]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Slick play on words, and marketing. What exactly is "foul brood". Never heard of it before. Is that AFB, EFB, or just a loose interpretation of "stinky" brood, thus calling it "foul brood". Guess it gives them alot of "outs", if anyone ever questions it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,000

    Post

    Fools can be sold all kinds of things.

  8. #8
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    > What exactly is "foul brood".
    > Never heard of it before.
    > Is that AFB, EFB...

    Yes.

    Unless modified by the prefix "European",
    one can assume that the speaker is
    speaking of "American Foul Brood", which
    is what "AFB" stands for. Likewise
    "EFB" stands for "European Foul Brood",
    but EFB is never as common or as nasty
    a problem as AFB.

    The funny aspect is where each was
    first found, and how the names were
    assigned to each disease. I'm not going
    to type the whole story, so ask someone
    old, or someone who has read lots of
    beekeeping books.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Wrong.

    I have checked almost all my mags, and several books. All have the same "foulbrood" not
    "foul brood". In legal terms there is a distinct difference that could be implied. The fact that "American" or "European" is also left out only further confuses the issue as to the meaning and assumtions.

    You assume that they are meaning AFB, EFB, or both. I ask, why do they not clarify their marketing. Either its poor marketing and professionalism, or its a deliberate slip on thier part to be deceptive. In either case, I would be cautious, and personally I would not deal with them.

    Based on the wording, and the lack of clarifying words to thier claims of product use, it would be hard to claim that the product performed or did not perform as the advertisment is read.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    jfischer,
    Just a point....if I walked up to you and said "I have foulbrood", then yes I would expect you, and I am sure you would know what I had. AFB, and it would be assumed and understood.

    We are not talking a casual conversation. I am talking about an advertisement that is not not clear, does not spell the terms correctly, and is questionable at best.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Post

    Almost all fungus are affected (adversely for the fungus) by an acid pH. So, yes, I think it would probably help with the chaulkbrood. But so does some added ventilation and putting the hive in direct sun and neither of these really cost anything.

    Of course nothing short of extreme heat (and some chemicals not available to an ordinary beekeeper) will kill AFB spores.

    I'm not sure what pH EFB thrives in, but I would imagine a shift in pH MIGHT affect it.

    Who knows about the mites? My guess is that it's not enough acidity to have any effect. I'm sure acetic acid at high enough levels would have a similar effect to other organic acids (formic and oxalic come to mind) and I believe it's been tried, but in vinegar it's a pretty low level.

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