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Thread: Wing Venation?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Phoenix
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    Can someone explain how wing venation is used to determine if you have AHB's.....

    Eric
    Tatonka

  2. #2
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    Dec 2004
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    Western Pennsylvania
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Odessa, Missouri
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    On CBS news (Kansas city at 5 AM channel 5) this morning.
    Showed a very bundled up beekeeper in Houston, Texas removing some very aggressive bees with a new method (the story said). The report did not use the word AHB which was good.
    The beekeeper was holding a Teddy bear in front of the entrance and the air was black with stinging bees. Looked like thousands of stings in the bear.
    Not good PR for beekeeping but what the news media wants to show and sad but true to life when dealing with bees with the aggressive genes!

    In European bees I can say that over the last fofty years I can count on both hands the number of hives I have seen with aggressive genetics.

    I would venture a guess and say over half the AHB which are mostly AHB genetics carry the aggressive genes.

    Researchers (including Dr. Warwick Kerr) have traced the aggressive genes to 2-3 gene combinations. Dr. Kerr in the late 60's was able to breed out the aggressive genes in the scutelata but the gene would resurface I was told by the memebers of the USDA-ARS lab in Baton Rouge (in 1967) *if* the bees were allowed to inbreed through supercedure.

    In research AHB virgins seem to mate with AHB drones when possible. Not sure why. Several hypothesis are around. This problem led to keeping strong AHB genetics while moving north from Brazil. Also causes inbreeding if the drones are from her hive.

    Does the kama kazi drone really care if the virgin is related to him?

    The much published fact about the queen flies farther which prevents inbreeding does not hold water in my opinion. In the two talks (on the subject) I have attended the speakers both said their research did not support the hypothesis but hard to change old beekeeping hypothesis.

    I live on a livestock farm and I can assure the list all the animals will inbreed when given the chance.
    Bob Harrison

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
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    "holding a Teddy bear in front of the entrance"

    I've seen the AHB stinging stuffed animals on TV before. Nothing like the thought of children + killer bees to get people worked up and hold their attention till the next commercial break.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2005
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    Odessa, Missouri
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    The station has a web site. WDAF.com .

    Information for the story is available I believe. maybe even the TV segment. I might check later but extracting honey today and need to get back.
    Bob Harrison

  6. #6
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    Mar 2005
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    Opps! From memory I believe the site is WDAFTV.com.
    Bob Harrison

  7. #7
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    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
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    I'm told that russians have a peculiar wing veination. Does anyone know how this pattern is inherited?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Odessa, Missouri
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    As I have said many times the slang term Russian bee is not a correct term. The bee lab cringes each time I say so!

    Yes these bees come from Russia but the bee as classified by Ruttner is A.m. macedonica. The wing venation of the import displayed for the most part has this wing venation.

    Dr. Rinderer sent samples to the famous Dr. Ruttner to classify. The macedonica bee is different than other wing venations. So yes your information is correct Aspera.

    Dr. Ruttner is in my opinion the expert and can tell the primary race and then the secondary races through wing venation.As he named and classified many of the races.

    To answer your excellent question Aspera (some of these internet names crack me up) .

    The USDA-ARS explains that the primary venation is established and then other races involved is done by closeness to other venations. Not hard to do with the computer program and a way to project the fore wing on the screen also .

    I was told by Charlie Harper (cooperator Baton Rouge bee lab) a DNA for the import be has not been made. I was suprised when Charlie told me the fact by phone call last winter but Charlie should know what he is talking about. Charlie Harper has helped me on more than one Russian issue.
    Bob Harrison

  9. #9
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    Jul 2005
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    Perkasie, PA
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    Thanks for the good info. Like Tatonka, I'm interested in using this trait to moniter the genetics of my bees. Right now I'm incorperating Russian/SMR hybid queens into my apiary and wanted to track the influence of "russian" drones. I guess its not that simple if it requires computer ID programs. Perhaps cordovan genes would be a better marker?

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