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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Sad

    Went out back today to check on some of
    the hives to discover that 9 out of 15
    dead. Small tight clusters, a inch or so
    away from the honey. Some others are
    alive but with small clusters. Wondering
    if I may be in an area where the mites
    are starting to develope resistance.
    Southern New Hampshire. I treated
    with menthol, Apistan and Crisco patties
    September/October and had good sized colonies
    when I wished them good night for the winter.
    First time I've seen such loss so early
    going into winter.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Round Top, New York - Northern Catskill Mtns.
    Posts
    1,895

    Post

    Is there only one main cluster of bees in each of the hives? Sometimes bees with mites toward the end move off into smaller clusters.
    If there is just one main cluster, it sounds like these hives have cold starved. They are tightly clustered, but just out of reach of food stores.
    I assume that in Southern NH, it has been similar to here, with some fairly cold early season temperatures. There have not been many days with temps to brake cluster since the end of October.
    Good luck with your other hives.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Post

    There was just one main cluster in each of the dead hives. About the size of an American football. Definately pulled away from the honey and starved.
    My concern is that the hives were ready for winter, lots of bees and honey and then today
    I find small dead cluster. Clean bottoms, no moisture problems as far as I can tell, there was a bit of frost on the outside frames but you'd expect that when you find dead outs here in New England. November was quite cold with a couple of -2F nights. Guess I'll be buying nucs this spring instead of selling them!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi,

    What you describe sounds typical of mite loss. Usually the colonies that survive the fall mite population look OK. But soon as the first cold snap hit they die. Ususally this isn't till Jan. or so. But this year it was early.Now it isn't exactly the mites at this time but it is probably a combination of low T-mite population (causes poor thermoregulation) and stress and viruses triggered by being parasitized. As for apistan resistance. Probably, thats why many are using check mite. Two years ago my area had apistan resistant mites (NY). With heavy loss so I wouldn't be surprises that it would be in NH also. Have you checked bottom boards for mites? Have you checked the bees in the cluster for mites? Have you checked in the cells for mite feces? As for starvation, it may be so but it is way too common over a broad range of area to be the underlaying reason for the loss. Most likly the coup de grace but not the reason for the weakening of the colony to such a state. I'd save my $$$ if I were reasonable sure of the survival of the other colonies and split 2 nucs off the parent colonies using a modified demaree set up for increase. Also look into other parasite controls if you feel the chems are failing.

    bee well,

    Clay

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,785

    Post

    I checked mine on a nice day about a week ago. The mites had devastaed them. One was wiped out, and two were barely surviving. Lots of dead bees on the bottom and lots of dead mites. I agree that what you describe is what I've seen when I've lost them to mites.

    I hate the helpless feeling of wishing I could help them more.

    I haven't had mite problems for a while.

    I ordered a fogger a couple of weeks ago, but it still isn't here.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Sad

    Update!
    Went and checked a couple of other yards and
    I see the same results. 5 dead out of 9
    and then another yard where all 4 out of 4
    dead. Depression is slowly settling in.
    All of them looked the same.

    So now I have about 18 deeps with a lot
    of honey (all exposed to Apistan)!
    Next years packages or nucs will be getting
    a good start.

    Bad batch of Apistan maybe?
    Checkmate, eh?
    Can I get it here in New Hamsphire.
    We(NH)always seem to be a bit behind the times when it comes to things like this.
    Guess I'll re-read the FGMO threads again
    and start shopping on line.

    Dave Verville

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi Dave,

    Update!
    Went and checked a couple of other yards and
    I see the same results. 5 dead out of 9
    and then another yard where all 4 out of 4
    dead. Depression is slowly settling in.
    All of them looked the same.

    reply:

    I've been here and know the feeling well. I have just checked around and am hearing reports of 30 to 40% loss in the N. east and its still early.

    Bad batch of Apistan maybe?

    reply:

    I doubt it. Its been know for awhile that fluvlinate was nearing its end. The bee journals and all play the effectiveness of the dopes up well. Don't be fooled all isn't as well with US beekeeping as many would like you to believe.

    Checkmate, eh?

    reply:

    Go ahead. I give it at the most 2 seasons. Then what will you do? That is of course as long as the section 18's are still in place. Personally a swore to never use the stuff. It is a terribly dangerous neurotoxin. The beekeeper is exposed to the chemical even with all safety equipment. It can accumulate is the system with the result of death. Not something you want to handle year after year.

    We(NH)always seem to be a bit behind the times when it comes to things like this.

    reply:

    Good time to get ahead.

    Guess I'll re-read the FGMO threads again

    reply:

    I had good luck with FGMO. As for acids well what was thought couldn't happen has. The mites are now becoming resistant from reports from Germany and other parts of europe. But I suspect that eventually FGMO "may" play out also. I have chosen the small cell route. Might be something to consider too.

    regards,

    Clay



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    West Harrison, NY, USA
    Posts
    261

    Post

    Clay,

    You said in a previous post in this section: "Split 2 nucs off the parent colonies using a modified demaree set up for increase"
    What is a modified demaree set up for increase??

    Thanks

    Jorge

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Drums, PA, USA
    Posts
    331

    Post

    I had good luck with FGMO. As for acids well what was thought couldn't happen has. The mites are now becoming resistant from reports from Germany and other parts of europe. But I suspect that eventually FGMO "may" play out also. I have chosen the small cell route. Might be something to consider too.

    My thoughts exactly, except, FGMO I don't think will play out. The only reason I say that, is because mites will have to change the way they breathe for that. My understanding is that it clogs their breathing pores, and the don't get enogh air and die. I think it is pretty hard to develop resistance against that.


    ------------------
    Dale Richards
    Dal-Col Apiaries
    Drums, PA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi Jorge,

    You said in a previous post in this section: "Split 2 nucs off the parent colonies using a modified demaree set up for increase"
    What is a modified demaree set up for increase??

    reply:

    I will describe how to do this with 2 deep hive body even though I use three so as to keep it simple. Demarree is a method for swarm control. It uses a method of removing the brood from the bees. I will be using it this spring but not for swarm control but rather as a method of seperating 4.9 combs from transition combs (but I won't discuss this for now). To do this modified demaree you will need empty box, queen ex., and double screen board, and division board feeder and a honey super.

    For the manipulation:

    Remove the hive from the stand. Put the empty box on BB. Fill the box with empty combs and some capped brood (not open brood)and some honey and pollen to the outsides. Place queen excluder on the box, then the honey super. Then put open brood with youngest to center in the top box. Shake ALL the bees to the front entrance ( use brush if you want). This elimanates finding the queen she will be below the excluder. Put the box on top and close up the hive. Return the following day, the nurse bees will go up through the excluder and across super to care for brood. Place double screen under the top box. The bees will draw cells ( they will do this even without the double screen so you could wait a few days if desired). With double screen in place you should have queen cells on several frames. Remove a frames of honey or empty. Set up each side as a nuc each with a cell separated by a division board feeder (or plywood divider). Open side entrances so queens can mate. You could shake bees in from below, chose nice cells and cut the others. Do this early in the season and add more brooding room down below whether foundations or combs.

    Clay- half asleep while writing



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Post

    Hi, I wonder why you guys still using Apistan, Checkmite – Cumafos or other kind of chemicals.
    There are no bad batches of Apistan or things like that on the marked. All you’re finding out is that your mites are resistant. It is a man made problem, I talked to many beekeepers here in Europe and in the US and find out, some lazy boys let the strips in the hives for the whole season.
    I visited a beekeeper in California this year in April and when he opened the hives his first thing was removing the Apistan strips from October year before. I couldn’t believe it that’s at least 7 months and he told me that he wand’s to make sure to kill all the mites.
    We have the same problem here and more and more beekeeper using acid in the fight against the mites. Some bee institutes in Germany working with acid since the mites arrived here in 1977 and find out there is no resistant possible. They using formic acid, lactic acid and oxalic acid, some acids working only during the warm season but the oxalic acid are a very good treatment during the whole year. Special the acid fog is the easiest treatment even in the wintertime. I have 24 hives and no losses since I start using it in 1989 and the cost is approx 2 cent per treatment. If someone is looking for more information go to the following website.
    http://www.mellifera.de/Engli2.pdf http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    medesto,indiana,usa
    Posts
    257

    Post

    Your bees may not be cold resistant I'd breed queens from survivors.

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