Time To Order.....

[Les Evans]

Hi,
I am thinking it is time that I should put in an order for Package bees so as to ensure that I get them in time for next season.
I have two hives and am wondering what amount I should get for each hive? A 3 pound package?
Also where would be a good place to order them from? I have heard that someplace's that sell packages also contain SHB,so I want to stay away from Iffy places like that.

Or do you think it would be best to pick them up myself?
I live about 2 hours(give or take) from Glory Bee Food Inc. which is located in Eugene Oregon and could make the trip up there to pick them up and also notice they have a live demonstration on how to start a hive with packaged bees which would be a plus.
I mention GBF as they seem to be a well known source for Beekeeping supplies.
There are a few sources over in the valley by Redding that I could drive over to as well but they dont have a website only a phone number.
Anybody in my neck of the woods know of anyother places to check out?

One more quick question.
I have no where to store my hives for the winter except for on the stand outside where they will be when the Bees arrive.
Is it ok to do this? Or will I have problems doing this?

Thank you

[size="1"][ October 11, 2005, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: Les Evans ][/size]

[SantaCruzBee]

It is probably a little early to put in an order. I don't think anyone out here accepts orders before February. It may be worth calling Glory Bee to find out when they do though. Picking the packages up is far better than receiving them in the mail. Getting a demo on hiving would be helpful, but all you need to do is read a book or two on it and that's how most people start I'd guess. You can treat the bees better than the postal service, although the one time I received a package by mail it did appear that the bees were fine. The people at Sacramento Beekeeping Supply are nice and helpful, but farther away from you. Their telephone number is: 916-451-2337. Chico has a Dadant office, never been there.

It is best to start out with 3 lbs. packages. I don't think you need to worry about storing your hives outside during the winter here in California, but if you have drawn comb in them and no bees the comb'll be at high risk for being ruined by wax moths. Someone else may have more information on this than I do.

[Michael Bush]

>I am thinking it is time that I should put in an order for Package bees so as to ensure that I get them in time for next season.

It seems like no one wants to take orders and then the next time you call they are sold out. Call early. Call often until you get them to confirm that you have an order.

>I have two hives and am wondering what amount I should get for each hive? A 3 pound package?

If I'm getting them through the mail I go for more bees to make up for what the USPS will kill. So the bigger the better. But bigger is probably nice anyway.

>Also where would be a good place to order them from?

If you can find a local place that trucks them there and you pick them up it's better than the Post Office.

>I have heard that someplace's that sell packages also contain SHB,so I want to stay away from Iffy places like that.

Could be. I haven't seen any yet.

>Or do you think it would be best to pick them up myself?

Always, if you can do so.

>I live about 2 hours(give or take) from Glory Bee Food Inc. which is located in Eugene Oregon and could make the trip up there to pick them up and also notice they have a live demonstration on how to start a hive with packaged bees which would be a plus.

A live demo is a great education.

>I mention GBF as they seem to be a well known source for Beekeeping supplies.

Yes.

>One more quick question.
I have no where to store my hives for the winter except for on the stand outside where they will be when the Bees arrive.
Is it ok to do this?

That's what I do.

> Or will I have problems doing this?

It will help if you seal them up well enough to keep the mice out. Hives make a very nice mouse house. At least the mice seem to think so.

[Les Evans]

Hi SantaCruzBee and Michael,
Thanks for your replys. I will give Glory Bee a call to see when exactly they will be taking orders.
I have read several books on beekeeping and am fairly confident that I will be able to hive the packages successfully but figured the live demonstration would be good for me as I learn better seeing and doing things in person as opposed to reading about it.
I will also give Sacramento Beekeeping supply a call as well. They are only about 5 hours south of me and I do frequent that area often.
I have also heard that Chico had a Beekeeping supply house(I didn't know it was Dadant)They are 3 hours or so east of here. But like I mentioned I'm not sure who would be best to go through?
Me being as new to this as I am I'm a bit leery of all these different places.

3 lbs. package is what I will get or more if I can swing it.
I'm also assuming I needn't worry about SHB in the packages then?

I wont be storing any comb in the hives that I will be storing outside.
The winters here are usually really wet and my main concern was spiders and other insects making home inside and laying eggs and whatever else they do. My hive stands are also poles so I don't think I need to worry about mice getting in either.

So now all I need to do is decide on a place to order the package bees from and find out when they are accepting orders.
Where do you guys order from? Or do you guys even do that since you both I assume are already well established?
There is a Feed store just north of me in Mckinleyville that sells a really limited amount of Bee supplies maybe I will call them up and see if they can get me some packaged Bees?

Thanks for answering my questions guys.

Any other advice is always welcome.
Great site by the way Michael.

[size="1"][ October 12, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Les Evans ][/size]

[Michael Bush]

>I'm also assuming I needn't worry about SHB in the packages then?

I wouldn't say that. I haven't had any, but what does that mean?

[RonS]

I live in south Texas. R. Weaver comes highly recommended in these parts. I called them to order for next year and they advised that they will begin accepting orders in December.

http://www.rweaver.com/all.html

[Les Evans]

Hi Michael,
I guess that means your one of the lucky ones?
I am probably being more paranoid then I need to be but I just don't want to start out having trouble with these things,if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the link Ron I will check that site out.

Appreciate the help guys.

[Michael Bush]

>I guess that means your one of the lucky ones?

Probably.

>I am probably being more paranoid then I need to be but I just don't want to start out having trouble with these things,if you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean. SHB would worry me too.

[Les Evans]

Hi Michael,
Well I think what I am going to do is call up the local feed store I mentioned above and see if they can get me packaged Bees. That way if they can I can talk to them and make sure that they will be SHB free.
If I cant get them locally I am most likely going to go with Glory Bee Foods for my order.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Thank you for your help.

[SantaCruzBee]

I've only been keeping bees for two years. Michael on the other hand is clearly the established beekeeper and by far the more knowledgeable person on bees.

In any case, I wouldn't go through the local feed store, unless they're well established in bees. Otherwise, you won't have as good an idea as to where your bees are coming from and they'll just be getting them mailed from somewhere too. An independent feed store as a bee source really won't be able to guarantee you timely delivery either I would guess.

Glory Bee should be good. My supplier in 2004 went out of the package bee business and so this year I bought packages from Sacramento Bee Supply. They also do a demo, although I didn't go to it. Prices really seemed to increase last year. In 2004 I paid approx. $35/package with a choice of Russian or Carniolan queens included. In 2005 I think I paid more than double the price ($80/package) at Sacramento Bee Supply, with a choice of Italian or Russian queens included and was told it was the result of a bad season for bees.

Regarding pests such as Varroa and SHB. In the case of Varroa, pretty much all bees will have them, hopefully at very low levels which won't affect you immediately and possibly not at all if the bees are resistant. I haven't been blighted with SHB yet (as far as I know), so I don't know what to say. I do think that by picking up your bees yourself from a relatively local bee-dedicated business you will be going in the right direction. There are no absolute guarantees when it comes to package pest infestations at present. If you pick up your bees yourself from a dedicated bee supplier it'll be a package from an entire pallet of packages and they won't hand you one that has lots of dead bees in it.

If you're starting up fresh, you might want to seriously consider small cell for your foundation. That's Michael Bush's thing and it's hard to say there's a downside to it at start up. My bees which are all supposedly "Russian" at this point are on large cell and on the whole seem to have done well, but if I were starting up I'd go SC. SC isn't truly proven, but without a downside at start up, I think it's the 'natural' choice.

[SantaCruzBee]

One last thing, I think it is better to start with two or even three hives if you can afford it. Even with the best supplier in the world there is no full guarantee that a queen won't fail.

In my first year, 2004, one of the three packages I hived (the only one I received by mail and which looked fine initially) never really got off the ground, and although the queen was laying, she never really did well. Due to my own inexperience and generally busy life I didn't requeen and eventually the hive either absconded or was overwhelmed by robbing. This year I started three new hives the first week of April I believe. One started to fail in June, but on inspection, the bees were superceding the queen and by July it was taking off big time without any intervention on my part other than to put back the entrance reducer to avoid setting the hive up for robbing.

[Michael Bush]

Local would be the best insurance that you won't get a pest that isn't already there. [img]smile.gif[/img] But, with all the bees being hauled up and down the interstate, I can't imagine that SHB aren't getting out everywhere. They may or may not get established everywhere.

[Les Evans]

Hi SantaCruzBee,
I see exactly what you are saying about the feed store. I'm not exactly sure if they are well established in Bees or not? They don't exactly carry a whole lot of supplies,so I might lean towards they aren't.
So I'm back to going with GBF or maybe even Sacramento Bee supply.
What I should do is call the locale feed store and see if they know of other Beekeepers in my area that I could contact about all of this.
Man $35 to $80 a package in a year. I wonder what the price will be next season?
I haven't yet bought foundation so I will look into the small cell? Can I ask what the difference would be between the SC and the large cell?
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought large cell was better for mite control?
I imagine any large Bee supply house would carry small cell foundation?

Right now I have two hives that I am going to start with for reasons that you mention and then when I get the hang of things and feel confident enough I plan on expanding.

Hi Michael,
I am going to call the feed store and see if they know of any beekeepers in my area that could help me out.

Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

[SantaCruzBee]

Michael's the guy to ask about small cell, but there's already plenty posted on it. SC (the "natural" cell size) is potentially beneficial for controlling mites, whereas LC (the traditional human designed cell size) potentially increases mite burdens on a hive. The benefits of SC are not proven, but the experience of people like Michael seems to support it and to start out with it can't do any harm and may be very helpful. SC foundation is available commercially, but not through every beekeeping supply house.

Lots of things impact the health of bees and the hive as a whole and the selection and breeding of mite-resistant bees is probably the current mainstay for fighting mites. The chemical treatments have become largely ineffective and are worrisome inadvertent additives to otherwise wholesome food to many people.

As with most things, there are many ways to skin a cat (not a PC expression these days) and beekeeping is no exception. I still hope and think that the type of bees rather than the cell size is the critical issue, but if I were starting out completely fresh I'd go with SC and if it were proven scientifically (or if I had more time on my hands), I'd switch over to SC now.

[Mitch]

I just orded my bee yesterday,but they come from a person I have been dealing with for several years.He goes down south and picks them up so I am not sue when his supplier starts taking orders.He was surprised i wanted to oreder so soon.I told him i wanted the early pickup date so i am ordering now.I ordered last year at about the same time and could not get bees till May 1stthis year i will get bees April 5th. So order early to get a good delivery date.The bee clubs and guys who go down to get the bees may take your order now never hurts to check.
I would say to order 2 packages(I use #3 packages) just so you can see the differance in one or the other so you know when there is a problem.Then i would get an extra hive for swarm catching.

[Murphy]

I am not sure where in N.Cal you are but this is where a large part of the country gets there bees.

Here is a link to Mt Diablo Bee Clubs listing. There are the names addresses and phone # of many fine breeders from Redding to Palo Cedro.

http://www.diablobees.org/suppliers.html

Good Luck

[loggermike]

You can call Pat Heitkam in Orland 530 865 9562.You will have to pick them up, but you wont go wrong getting bees from them.The 3 pound package is best.

[Les Evans]

Hi SantaCruzBee,
I will do a search on the boards here for more info on SC. If it doesn't hurt and I may end up with benefits from using it I might as well try it.
I have however looked at a couple well known Bee supply sites and didn't see any mention of it,but I could have just over looked it.
I see that you mention mite-resistant bees. I was/am planing on getting Italian Bees. It seems like they are more widely available and I have read that they are a good worker Bee but I haven't read anything on the strain you mention.
I still have a lot more reading up and learning about all of this,it takes me longer then most it seems to absorb things.
I will however check into the SC foundation.

Hi Mitch,
Thanks for the input.
I am planning on ordering 3 lbs. packages or more if I can. I have two hives as of right now but will build another hive(love building this stuff) for swarm catching as you mention.
As soon as I can make up my mind where I want to order from I will be calling them often to confirm my order and to get the earliest delivery date.

Hi Murphy,
I am located approximately 3 hours west of Red Bluff on Hwy. 36
Thanks for the link to the list of Breeders.

Hi LoggerMike,
Thanks for the number. I will call him up and see what I can find out.

So many places to choose from,I don't know where to start.

I appreciate all the help guys.
Take care

[Michael Bush]

>I have however looked at a couple well known Bee supply sites and didn't see any mention of it,but I could have just over looked it.

Only Dadant and Brushy Mt carry Small Cell (4.9mm) foundation.

[Les Evans]

Hi,
Thanks Michael.
I will check them out.
I think I will get use Small cell. Like SantaCruzBee said,It cant hurt to try.