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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Aegina, Greece
    Posts
    28

    Question

    Is possible to grow up a hive with one kind of bees and after a couple of months to put a new queen of a different kind to change the popullation's characteristics?
    Does the old bees accept the new queen if have other colors than they have?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    829

    Post

    Yes mikeaegina there is no problem.

    Take the old queen out and put the new one in the hive.
    BUT, the new queen smells different and the bees normally would kill the queen. Ask the beekeeper where you get the new queen from for a little cage. I’m sure he will give or show you one. If you know how they look like you can make your own.
    Put one drop of honey (not more) in the cage (food for the queen) too much can work like glue. Than take the queen in the cage and close the round opening. The queen seller can show you what to do.

    Next step, take a frame with a foundation and cut a pies out from the wax, in the middle and on top not the bottom from the frame. The hole should have the size from the cage not lager. Place the cage and hold it place with wire or so.

    Now put everything in middle of the hive. Take one brood frame out, or move it and the frame with the queen in the hive.
    Next step, after three days the queen has the same smell and you can remove the plug. Close the opening with a good dough plug, made from honey and icing sugar, not to soft so it can hold in the opening. Put a similar pies dough on top of that same frame.
    The bees eat the plug in a few hours and the queen is free. During the three days the bees starting to build combs on the foundation round the cage. When the queen is free most of the time she starts here with her first eggs. After a few weeks remove the cage and the bees closing the hole in no time.

    There are other possibilities but this is for beginners 100%.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,797

    Post

    The basic concepts are as Axtman has said. The application varies a lot from beekeeper to beekeeper. Since the cages in the USA are a little different I'll try to explain how they work.

    If you buy a queen in the USA it will come in a cage with candy for feed. It also has nurse bees in it. Acceptance is the only real problem in requeening and the nurse bees don't help. There is no EASY way to remove them that I know of. I've done a lot of different things to get them out, but it might be easiest for a beginner to just leave them in.

    If anyone knows a really easy method to get the nurse bees out of a queen cage, I would love to know it.

    Acceptance is better if you kill the old queen 24 hours before you introduce the new one.

    The bees who are most accepting of a new queen are the emerging brood. They have no prejudices in regards to the smell of the queen or the hive. If you can put the cage near emerging brood they will be the most accepting.

    The usually method here is to push the frames in the brood chamber to the outside to make enough space to fit a queen cage between two frames of emerging brood. Unfortunlately this does not always work if the bees have filled the outside frames really full. An Imire shim is a useful tool for queen introduction. It is just a hive sized square 3/4" of an inch deep, so it adds enough room for a queen cage. If I can fit it between frames, I do that. If I can't I use the shim. You remove the cork from the candy side of the queen cage and poke a small hole all the way through the candy, being careful not to go too far and stab the queen. A toothpick that has been cut blunt works if you are gentle enough.

    The bees in the hive and the nurse bees in the cage will try to eat their way out and in through the candy. It will take at least a day or two to do this. In the meantime they get used to the smell of each other and hopefully accept the queen.

  4. #4

    Post

    Hello Axtmann
    you seem to have same ideas as myself would like to chat some time. give me a e mail.
    I am breeder of queens and been keeping bees for over 40 yrs.
    I still learn every year as things are always changing.
    anyone can make there own queens if that just take the time.
    everyone wants everything so quick now days just makes me wonder what the younger generation is going to do.
    thanks----Don

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    829

    Post

    mikeaegina

    Yes you can also go the way like Michael says, BUT you’re a beginner and I wouldn’t recommend it.

    >>Acceptance is better if you kill the old queen 24 hours before you introduce the new one.<<

    After 24 hours the bees could have started to build new queen cells in your hive. You as a beginner will have a big problem in finding all cells.
    It would be bad for you if the queen were up in a tree after a while. Try that method in a few years not now.

    I would also never kill an older queen during the season. You never know what happen, you might nee the queen for one reason or the other. Put the queen in a little hive (we call it mating hive) with a cup of bees from the same hive the queen comes from and bring it for 4 days on a other place (3-4km) away till the bees have no orientation anymore and than bring them back to you bee yard. (Feed the little one)

    You can kill a queen when you able to breed your own!!!!

    One idea, tell the beekeeper you get the queen from he should cut one wing. If she like to swarm, she can only fly in a circle and not high up I a tree or away.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,797

    Post

    I've never seen them start queen cells in 24 hours. Any longer and I think they would.

    Removing the queen is ok, but usually here we are replacing a old queen. She will eventually become infertile. It's a nice Idea to keep her around a while, but more trouble than I think it's worth. The general practice here is to requeen a minimum of every other year and many requeen every year. Research has shonw that this practice keeps production up, reduces swarms and supercedures. I'm not saying it's wrong not to, but it is the accepted practice here based on research.

    You could start a new hive hive, keeping the old queen around. You could requeen it later. The biggest advantage to this method would be if they reject the new queen.

    I've also never tried putting the cage in the middle of the comb as Axtman says, but I have heard of it, and it probably works well for improving acceptance.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Aegina, Greece
    Posts
    28

    Post

    (edited January 21, 2003).]

    [This message has been edited by mikeaegina (edited January 22, 2003).]

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