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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Benton County, Oregon
    Posts
    408

    Post

    I like Dave!

    4th day: 250 mites.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Before I can say, "see I told you so" [img]smile.gif[/img] , we need numbers for the ENTIRE treatment period.

    Please, keep counting.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Benton County, Oregon
    Posts
    408

    Post

    will do - though i'll unfortunately be out of town for 10 days of it. will count up to then and resume after.
    Dan

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Can someone "exchange" sticky boards a couple of times while your gone? If you make up extra boards before you leave, all they would have to do is remove a board and insert a new one. You could do the counting (fun part [img]smile.gif[/img] ) later. Dividing the total found by number of days board was in place will give a "24-hr count".

    I sure would like to know how many mites are in your hive.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Benton County, Oregon
    Posts
    408

    Post

    day 5: 136 mites.
    Dave: can't I just set a fresh board on before I leave then count and divide by the number of days as you said above upon my return?
    Dan

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,625

    Post

    >can't I just set a fresh board on before I leave

    Sure. Dave would just like to see daily variation [img]smile.gif[/img]

    >I sure would like to know how many mites are in your hive.

    Oh, about 3500 or so, give or take, when he started. Since then he's killed almost 2000 mites. There's probably around 2000 or so still in there.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    >Dave: can't I just set a fresh board on before I leave then count and divide . . .

    IF, if your hive is dropping 200 mites per day and your gone 10 days, 2000 mites will be VERY, VERY hard to find in the pollen, wax particles, and other debris that will accumulate (possible, but very hard to do).

    I have found that a MAXIMUN of 7 days works best (for me).

    Daily variations are nice to have, but the TOTAL mites in your hive will make more of an impact on YOU. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Daily counts after day 14-15 is need to determine how may mites are comming into your hive EVERY DAY. Knowing this number (along w/ future counts) can give you an idea of how soon the mite population MAY need additional treatment(s).

    Please, keep counting!

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    1,189

    Post

    I'll make a couple of assumptions and see how this works out. There are about 4000 mites in the colony which consists of about 30,000 bees. This gives a density of about 14 mites per 100 bees. While this is well within the danger zone for a colony, its not at death's door. Given that the treatment is in early August, the colony should be in reasonably good condition next year.

    I'll agree that some mites will survive the treatment. Best guess is that the colony will go into winter with about 500 mites presuming the treatment lasts at least 45 days. This colony will be in dire straits by July of next year if its not treated again.

    Fusion

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,625

    Post

    >There are about 4000 mites in the colony which consists of about 30,000 bees.

    Hehe.. we're not far off in our basic assumptions. I too was figuring about a 10% infestation level, which is definitely in the danger zone, I'm of the opinion that a hive with a 14% infestation level probably ain't going to make it no matter what you do.

    I personally wouldn't want to go into winter with 500 mites in my hive. If I had a load like that, I'd be inclined to do a late-fall (early November) OA drip treatment.

    >Daily counts after day 14-15 is need to determine how may mites are comming into your hive EVERY DAY.

    Mite immigration isn't a foregone conclusion. Could happen. Might not.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Benton County, Oregon
    Posts
    408

    Post

    day 6: 270 mites!
    majority of them are smaller than even yesterday though.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    >Mite immigration isn't a foregone conclusion . . .

    Every day as forgers return to hive, they are bring back mites too. We just dont know how many yet (the counts at he end of treatment period will give us an indication).

    Keep counting, please.

    [size="1"][ August 11, 2006, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Dave W ][/size]

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    It may not be a foregone conclusion, but it is well documented that the drones are the biggest carriers of varroa between colonies. They are the only ones welcome to go from colony to colony without being questioned. No other bee has the oportunity to visit multiple hives on a regular basis.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Benton County, Oregon
    Posts
    408

    Post

    day 7: 168 mites.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    >it is well documented that the drones are the biggest carriers of varroa between colonies . . .

    This is news to me [img]smile.gif[/img] Where is it "well documented"?

    Robbers (workers only) are the "carriers" that concerns me. They have the potential to re-infest a hive very quickly. Drones may carry mites INTO hive but probably carry an equal amount OUT as well.

  15. #55

    Post

    Question from a relative newbie:

    How can you tell if a hive is affected? How does one count mites?
    Try to learn something new every day and give thanks for all your blessings.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    Ginger

    these days, most new hives come with SBB
    (screened bottom board)
    here's pics

    http://www.beesource.com/plans/ipmbottom.htm

    it let's mite that naturally fall off the bee's fall out the bottom of the hive
    then you put a piece of cardboard smeared with some vegtable oil under it and the mites get stuck on it and you can pull it out and count em
    people typically talk about how many fall out in 24 hrs
    a 24 hr natural drop
    there all kinds of thoughts on how many constitute a problem
    I worry if it's over about 20/day

    Dave

  17. #57

    Post

    Dave,

    Thanks. I've an older hive and am going to order a SBB.

    I'm also trying to decide between fogging with MGFO or using formic acid, maybe even vinegar to rid the hive of mites.

    Is there a source for natural (not plastic) small cell comb?
    Try to learn something new every day and give thanks for all your blessings.

  18. #58

    Post

    Dave,

    Thanks. I've an older hive and am going to order a SBB.

    I'm also trying to decide between fogging with FGMO or using formic acid, maybe even vinegar to rid the hive of mites.

    Is there a source for natural (not plastic) small cell comb?
    Try to learn something new every day and give thanks for all your blessings.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    Dadant has the biggest selection

    http://www.dadant.com/

    Brushy Mountain has it for deeps only I think

    http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?cat=6&pg=2

    these are foundation, not drawn comb

    Dave

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    iddee,
    I agree with your comments as a whole although as DaveW pointed out, the "documented" part may be lacking.

    A few points....

    Drones do in fact drift and are welcome from one hive to another. That point is documented.

    Diane Cox at Penn State in researching virus vectors, had stated and documented that mites transfer(along with Virus transfer) happens within an apiary on a regular basis. Her research goal was not based on these findings and was not the point at hand. So the facts and data have been stated on a casual observation level. These hives being tested had shown a great transfer of virus and mite loads that were not attributed to robbing.

    I'll assume it must be in part to drone drift. Although in doing many sugar shakes, it is common to see bees covered in sugar an hour later in another hive. At first I thought it may be just confused bees, being covered in sugar and all. But further observations would make it appear for other reasons. Just how many worker bees drift is hard to say. May be in part to both worker and drone drifting.

    I do beleive drones play a bigger part in mite transfer than first thought, especially at this time of year. Drones being kicked out of one hive, may just go to the next hive. Hives rearing late swarm queens and those superceding may allow these drones into the hives in great numbers. At this time of the year, with the increasing mite loads, such drone increases can drastically change mite loads. This my opinions based on observations, and of course not "well documented".

    The one way to eliminate the drone impact on hives through drift would be to do mite counts while using drone excluders. This would eliminate the drone factor while making comments from DaveW like "Drones may carry mites INTO hive but probably carry an equal amount OUT as well." a non issue. (Dissmissing one persons comments while using "may" and "probably" is a little hard to swallow.) As of this time I know no such test, thereby making drones a real possibility of mite transfer. Drone drifting through the year may have one level of impact, and drones congregating in receptive hives after being kicked out of another may cause an increase impact.

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