woodworking "beehive" shop ?

[BerkeyDavid]

Comments:

1. Cheaper to buy precut unless you work for nothing. But it is a great excuse to build / upgrade your wood shop!
2. Good table saw is most important. Best buy out there IMO is Grizzly. Go for the most saw you can afford. It is the heart of your shop. Look for FLAT cast iron. http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G0444 is the minimum.
If you can find an old table saw, you can always upgrade the fence with an Incra or other type, then use the fence for your router too. Also you can upgrade the motor easily. I have an old Delta contractor's saw with extended Incra table with router set up that works well for me with upgraded motor.
3. Dust collection. I like the Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G1028Z this is what i have works good. Just move it from machine to machine. Big 4 inch hose.
4. Air compressor with staple gun is key IMO to fast assembly of frames and bodies. I can't imagine not having that. Lots of good deals available on this. Plus you can pump up your tires.
5. Agree better to get a good stack dado blade. Not a wobble blade they are a waste of money.
6. Agree you need a drill press. You can skimp here, lots of used stuff out there.
7. Must have a jointer. At least 6". either delta or grizzly or jet or old BIG used one BUT NOT a cheap old LITTLE one, some of the old craftsman are a waste of money (Sorry craftsman fans). I just gave one away.
8. Hard to imagine not having a band saw. if you can find a cheap used one you can always upgrade the motor. You are buying the motor and the casting. 14" delta is minimum. Forget about the benchtop ones.
9. finally a planer. 12 1/2 inch portable will work.

Takes years to save up, but start at least with the best table saw you can afford, then add.

You may be able to find a good deal on a used radial arm table saw. That was my first saw (Craftsman). Helpful for crosscutting. They are dangerous though. But with the new miter saws I don't use the radial much anymore. If I was starting out, I would get a 10" miter saw, maybe go whole hog and get a sliding one with a portable table (on wheels). That would give you a crosscut capacity of about 12 inches or more at 90 degrees. A lot more accurate and safer IMO than the old radials.

Unisaw is the Delta cabinet table saw. It is a dream of mine too some day. Miles of cast iron table, 5 hp 220 V motor, enclosed cabinet for good dust collection. (Are you listening Santa?)

david

[This message has been edited by BerkeyDavid (edited November 16, 2004).]

[Jerry C]

After a table saw (mines a 10 inch Craftsman which I really like), I whished I had bought a joiner next (have a 6 inch Craftsman now). If you can get a straight edge on the board before you rip it everything fits together better. If you are building bee boxes a good chop saw with a homemade table will let you set up a length stop and you can cut identical length boards all day. I have a CH brad nailer that I bought for cabinet work that works really well for assembling frames ($40).

[dtwilliamson]

The main tools I use are 2 table saws (one small and one big). One is set up with my dado blade to cut the rabbet joints. The other is set up to cut the boards down to correct width. I can't tell you how nice it is to have two saws to avoid setup up changes. That way everything is exactly identical. Not to mention the time it saves.

I use a 19.2v Craftsman drill and hand clamps for pre-drilling and screwing boxes together. I use a circular saw with guide for cutting boards to length.

Dan

[Michael Bush]

The four power tools I use the most:

o Table saw (I bought a small cheap one but wish it would take a large dado blade, it will only do a 1/2" dado)

o Skil HD5510 5-1/2" Circular Saw
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...84051?v=glance I also have a 7 1/2" worm driven skil, but seldom use it now that I have the 5 1/2" one.

o 3/8" drill

o 1/4 crown stapler with compressor. I have from 5/8" to 1 1/2" long staples. The 5/8" are nice for putting on hardware cloth or screens. The 3/4" are nice for nailing on 1/4" ply. The 1" are nice for frames. The 1 1/4" are nice when you don't want the staple to stick through when nailing two 3/4" boards and the 1 1/2" are nice for nailing 3/4" boards where you don't have to worry about it sticking through (like corners on a hive body).

[nhbeekeeper]

very helpful stuff above thank you....

hmmmm seems you can outfit the whole shop with grizzly (table saw, planer, jointer and a band saw for kicks) for about $1500 which is very attractive and looking on the web lots of people are happy with this line of products.

-vs-

$1200 for a most contractor grade table saws.


what is the attraction of a left tilt table saw? is this that the blade can go either right or left?


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NH Beekeeper

** Have you seen BeeBlogs.com ?

[This message has been edited by nhbeekeeper (edited November 16, 2004).]

[BerkeyDavid]

Left tilt is probably safer since the blade angles away from the fence. But if you are trying to cut triangular top bars, for example (don't bother they don't work any better i tried it) you are better off using a right tilt with a sacrifical fence (clamp a board to your fence so you don't cut the metal fence). Otherwise you are left with no way to use the fence. Hard to describe but bottom line is you can never cut an acute angle if you are ripping with the fence on a lleft tilt. There are advocates for both. My opinion is go for the standard right tilt and just do a good job squaring up your blade with your fence and be careful.
david

[JohnBeeMan]

A Power Miter saw (compound slider would be top-of-line) is better alternative (IMO) than radial arm saw.

If you are going to be obtaining cheap lumber or slab wood from a saw mill you will be needing a thickness planer.

Woodworking is a bigger money pit than beekeeping, but both are great.

There is always the option of traditional woodworking. Then all you should need would be a couple of hand saws (1 crosscut, 1 rip), a few Standley hand planes, an old wooden dado plane and a hammer. Another fun hobby.

[magnet-man]

Those tools in the right hands can do a lot very quickly, but there are not many right hands left.

[nhbeekeeper]

BerkeyDavid i am really leaning towards some grizzly products.

do you know if they ever have sales? or specials?

do you know if stores carry their products or are they only available direct?

[nhbeekeeper]

ok i have $1500 to spend and have decided on Grizzly: a table saw, drill press and ONE other piece for now either the planner or a jointer.

1) so go with the planner or a jointer for now?

thanks for all the advice with putting as much as i can into a table saw the contractor grizzly cost $450 vs the heavy duty cabinet base saw cost $850.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...010&sort=price

contractor model: G0444Z
heavy duty model: G1023S

2) the heavy duty has a larger motor but will i see an "overall" difference for double the price? if so, how? obviously one is more portable then the other.

i am torn because if i go with the contractor model i could then get a band saw now too. hmmmm

yes this is overkill for beehive building but i do plan on doing more in this shop then just building hives such as finish my 2nd floor in my home and building a new honey house in the near future

thanks

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NH Beekeeper

** Have you seen BeeBlogs.com ?

[magnet-man]

If you are going to work with a lot of hardwoods, then the extra horsepower is really needed. It takes a long time to put a daddo in an oak board with a 2 hp motor.

As for a planner or a jointer which one to get first, it depends if you plan on making your own lumber. If you are, then you need both. If you are going to re-saw finished lumber then get the plainer. The plainer and the jointer are really two tools that are designed to work together. You can make a basic jointer with a router.

Now if you plan on making your own hives I might be tempted to get the G0513 band saw. It has a 12” cutting depth which means you can take 12 by 2 boards that sell for less here than the 1 by 12, at least in Tulsa, and re-saw them down the middle. You would not need to plane them if you put the cut side facing in.

Not to turn you off to Grizzly but you really do need to read some of the woodworking forums. Grizzly has some good tools but they also have some real dogs and these forums are a good place to get that information. Like the Grizzly G1079 16" Drum Sander has a lot of bad comments about it. If you get a chance go to their Muncy, PA show room. If you are going to spend that type of money it is worth the trip. I went to the Springfield, MO showroom twice once during their annual spring-cleaning sale. That is when they sell a lot of returned and reconditioned equipment.

[BerkeyDavid]

Hey NH

I agree, some of the Grizzly stuff is better than others. The table saw is one of the good ones. It got a good rating in my woodworking mags as a best buy. Mag man is right you will need 2 hp minimum for hardwoods.

they don't have too many sales. also agree you need to check out the woodworking sites / mags.

Best grizzly stuff is the heavy cast iron. If you want real low tolerances they start to fade.

I definitly think you must have a jointer. Gives you a place to start, so your rip is accurate. Of course depends on where you get your wood and how much you use your stuff. You can pay to have all your stuff jointed one edge "SAS" and thickness planed for quite a while before you save up the cost!

david

[BerkeyDavid]

NH just looked in my 04 Grizzly catalogue. They have the GO444 with 1 1/2 hp motor for 435. You can get the same saw with a 2 hp motor for 525. G0444Z For the extra money you get cast iron wings instead of the stamped steel wings, this is definitley worth it IMO.

so I would go with the 2 hp contractor saw with the cast iron wings. Shipping is the same ($75) for both.

good luck

david

[This message has been edited by BerkeyDavid (edited November 20, 2004).]

[magnet-man]

I really think you need more than 2 hp if you are going to do hardwood.

A jointer has really two jobs. One is to make a smooth surface on a cut made on a table saw. The other is when you make your own lumber and there it is used to plane one side flat and smooth. The board is then run through the planner to smooth the other side and get it down to the desire thickness. If you take a board that is slightly cupped and run only through a planner, the planner will flatten it and the cup will spring back once it gets through.

If you are never going to need to plane a board to a certain thickness then you donÂ’t need the planer. If you are going to make furniture, then the jointer is a must have.

The number one thing you really need for a woodworking shop is lots and lots of room! And money too! The base tool is only the beginning!


[This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited November 20, 2004).]

[BerkeyDavid]

Hi Guys

I've been working in my shop today building a small TV stand. After reading the posts I thought I must have a 3 hp motor (can't remember that stuff) I was surprised to find out I only have a 1 1/2 hp motor on my table saw. I upgraded years ago from a 1 hp. I work a lot in ash and cherry, sometimes maple and oak. I use good blades, thin kerf rip blades, keep them sharp and keep my fence parallel to the blade. I find it is enough power for me.

If I had to make a choice between more power and a jointer I would take the jointer. In fact, until I had a planer, band saw jig saw and a couple routers and was pretty well set up, for what I do (furniture and odds and ends) it has served me well.

If I was ripping 3 inch hard maple all day, though, I would defintely want more.

But I found a big trailer load of cherry a few years ago so until I get through that I am building mostly in cherry (aka amish mahogany), which is one of the softer hardwoods.

for what its worth!

cheers!

david

[nhbeekeeper]

is rought cut lumber that much of a difference in price?

there is a delta 13" planer on amazon for around $300

room isnt an issue for a shop in my basement all open space becasue of a nice steel i-beam i used when i built my place

[magnet-man]

The 2 by 12 lumber is construction lumber used for floor joist and such and mostly ponderosa pine here in Tulsa. You will have to pick through the stack to get the best boards for re-sawing but a vast majority of the boards are good. You canÂ’t have many knots in a board that is supposed to span 20 feet with out support. The 1 by 12 is spruce is planned with a much finer finish. I would prefer to use ponderosa pine instead of spruce to be honest.

[BerkeyDavid]

NH
get the planer! You will save thousands and thousands of dollars

I love to plane wood!

Thought of one more thing. Be sure your electrical system can handle your new tools or be prepared to rewire. When I was working out of my garage (had everything on wheels) I had a heck of a mess trying to run my table saw and vacuum at the same time. I was always tripping stuff, especially on start up.

Now I have a big shop all wired for 220 and switched all my motors I could over to 220.

But the 110 really pulls the amps.
gotta go the shop is calling....
david

[nhbeekeeper]

thanks guys for the advice things are really starting to pan out.

i found this board which is awesome in woodworking like this board is in beekeeping
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

after the past week of digging into things i am very close to placing an order with these guys who are 5 hours away.
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/Online...?CurrentPage=2

i am going to start will the 8" jointer, 10" contractor saw and am toying with the idea of getting the 15" planer.

more and more i am hearing that planning wood saves you a bundle which is starting to make the 15" planer above look more and more attractive. i was also looking at the delta 13" which is about 1/2 the cost.

hmmmmm




------------------
NH Beekeeper

** Have you seen BeeBlogs.com ?

[BerkeyDavid]

Nice site there. Are you going with the Bridgewood saw? it was ranked favorably with the grizzly. I think the wings are stamped though. If you can afford it go with the 15 inch planer! If you ever lay up panels that extra few inches is valuable.