Lost colony blues, new start questions

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

I suffered a loss of one of my colonies a week ago. I had been in nine days earlier, following a mite drop test that had 20 mites over a two-day period. I noticed a small population, which I had observed from not as much activity in and out the front door as my other colony. But there was the marked queen with attendants around her in the middle of the top brood box. There were honey frames with lots of stores and I had a feeder on with syrup and wintergreen.

I went no further after rejoicing on seeing the queen, since I was planning to go in as soon as the correct 4.9 crimp wire wax foundation arrived, and I would feed these SC frames into the brood nest. I was thrilled they had made it through the winter.
Two days later we went down to freezing. When it warmed up I noticed very little activity, and it was several days later that it was warm enough to go in to put the new foundation, and my colony was dead. There were perhaps thirty dead bees on the SBB, and a few on the frames. A few had their heads in the cells, and there was capped honey on that frame.

I collected as many bees as I could and sent them to Beltsville in alcohol, (Had to repackage because the Post office hates shipments with alcohol so we had to flag it hazardous and send it surface shipment only) along with sections of comb. I am awaiting their diagnosis.

After grieving, I decided to look at this as an opportunity to begin a new colony all on small cell foundation. I ordered a package from Walter Kelly and will get my frames in order and ready to go.

I have a lot of drawn comb, but will not use it in the brood chamber because I want the bees to draw out the foundation all on new 4.9 crimp wire full sheets.

Depending on the diagnosis from Beltsville, I was hoping to let the new colony have the stores from the old colony by putting them above a queen excluder so they will not be used for brood. PS no sign of wax moth

Will the presence of large cell above the excluder affect the drawing out of the small cell in the brood chamber?

I plan to mark these frames of stores, since they may contain syrup with wintergreen and not use them to extract for human consumption. Can my new package salvage wax from these frames as well as honey to use in the brood chamber?

My second colony is going great guns.

[Michael Bush]

>Will the presence of large cell above the excluder affect the drawing out of the small cell in the brood chamber?

IMO no. Some people seem to think so.

>Can my new package salvage wax from these frames as well as honey to use in the brood chamber?

The problem with comb above the excluder while there is nothing but foundation below is that the bees will want to move up on the comb and they may abandon the queen below the excluder. I wouldn't add them until they have a brood nest established.

They won't use much, if any, of the wax. When they uncap it they let the cappings fall on the bottom. They don't tend to tear down comb a lot for wax except early, when the nights are still cold and it's difficult to make wax.

[MountainCamp]

Do you see anything that made you think that you had a problem like AFB?

What was your fall nectar flow like?

When did the queen shutdown in the fall and stop laying?

Many times a colony will shutdown rearing brood during times of shortage of nectar coming into the hive.

If you had a dry fall, with little nectar coming in and the queen shutdown, then they may have very well gone into winter with a cluster of older bees from summer. These older bees are not what gets a colony through till spring and brood rearing gets going again.

[AstroBee]

My guess is that it was a mite-related loss. 20 mites in two days on a small cluster of bees indicates that you probably had lots of mites last fall that really weakened the hive. The short cold snap was the last straw, as the little cluster couldn't generate enough heat to survive. I'd be monitoring your other hive closely for mites.

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

I THOUGHT OTHERS WHO HAD LOST A COLONY MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE FINDINGS FROM THE BEE DIAGNOSIS REASERCH LAB.
THE WORD FROM BELTSVILLE ON MY LOST COLONY

THE QUEEN HAD NO PARASITES OR DISEASE

WORKERS HAD 3 V MITES DETECTED, NOSEMA DECTECTED

COMB SAMPLE NO AMERICAN FOUL BROOD

NO TRACHEAL MITE IN ANY BEES.

MY SECOND COLONY IS GOING GREAT, TIGHT BROOD PATTERN AND QUEEN PRESENT AND ACCOUNTED FOR.
GAVE THEM A DOSE OF MEDICATED SYRUP JUST IN CASE.

MY PACKAGE ARRIVES NEXT WEEK. I HAVE A BRAND NEW BOX AND ALL NEW FRAMES WITH SMALL CELL TO START THEM OUT ON. I PLAN TO USE OLD FRAMES WASHED IN VINEGAR AND NEW SMALL CELL FOUNDATION FOR THE NEXT TWO BROOD BOXES. ALSO WILL GIVE MEDICATED SYRUP FIRST FEED IN CASE THOSE NASTY PROTOZOA ARE STILL HANGING ABOUT. ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS? THANKS DONNA MARIE

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

Sorry about the caps in the last message. Also plan to throw out all the stores from this colony...too bad there is a lot of honey. Thanks Donna Marie

[Tia]

Donna! Nosema?!?! Around here?!?! Gosh, I didn't think that was possible. Never worried about it. Now I will. Did you see any streaking on the hive or spots in the hive? Anything to give an indication of nosema? As attentive as you are, I can't believe there were and you missed the signs.

I think you may be worrying too much. These things happen. You're much more attentive to your girls that I am to mine (witness yesterday's finding of wax moth infestation in #7!), so don't beat yourself up. Just keep doing what you're doing. Sounds right to me.

[George Fergusson]

So Donna, what's the final analysis? That they died of Nosema? From your description of the hive's demise, it didn't sound much like nosema, it sounded more like dwindling due to varroa and if I recall your thread last fall about this hive, varroa was a major problem. Then again, nosema can cause dwindling, usually in the early spring. Usually there are signs of nosema infection in the hive. Never seen it, I've heard it's messy.

Does anyone know about the hazards of feeding back honey from a hive that died of nosema? My inclination at least would be to extract it and eat it myself assuming it *looked* good.

In any case Donna, sorry for your loss and here's hoping you have a great second season!

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

Hi Tia, thanks for the kind words of encouragement, the saddest thing of all was I have had a bottle of Funidil sitting here since last spring. But I shall take my comfort where I may...thrilled there were no tracheal mites!
No I did not see a lot of yellow streaking....I really had not a clue. Protazoa live in wet places and this swampy land surely qualifies...but who knows. It was probably a combination of factors, since colony two is doing great.

George, are you sure extracting and eating the stores myself would be such a great idea? If it is not fit for the incoming package, wouldn't it be unfit for human consumption?
Protazoa are some very hardy organisms.

More to learn every day! Cheers Donna Marie

[Sundance]

Nosema would sure do it. As Jim Fischer has stated it is perhaps the most undiagnosed problem in apiaries.

I would give all your girls a shot a fumagillin.

Sorry Donna.... you have such a sweet set up there.

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

Thanks Bruce and George for your good wishes....I am going to look on the bright side and now can start a colony exclusively on small cell. It is sad though and I think I must now treat in the fall again, since we have a lab positive diagnosis. I did put a dose of fumigillin in the top feeder of my strong colony yesterday but was thinking better of that today.
I read that when the brood begin to emerge they break the cycle of disease, and I thought perhaps the danger point was passed.
Additionally the bees don't seem much interested in the syrup. The tulip Poplar is set to bloom any day now. I am considering removing the medication and adding supers so they can harvest the flow.


Good idea or bad idea?

P.S. they are already drawing out the frames of small cell I introduced into the brood chamber.
Thanks DM

[Sundance]

If they are not taking the syrup there is nothing you can do that I am aware of.

I like that there is no resistance possibility with fumigillin.

Glad to hear your going SC. Good move.

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

Before I forget to mention it, a word of high praise for Barton Smith at the Bee Research Center.
My package took fully three weeks to travel from North Carolina to Maryland, it went the long route, evidently. I had occasion to speak with Barton several times over the course of its transit. He was gracious enough to keep me informed and took the time to answer all my questions re the diagnosis.

And there is no fee for this sservice. I can't say enough about this great institution! Thanks Donna Marie