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  1. #1
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    Ok, one of my hive swarmed the other day. I Was so sad but it was a sight to see. It sounded so loud.
    anyways, i just looked in the hive and there are queen cells stil in there. Should i destroy them and requeen or leave them. The hive is russians form kellys.

    Second question, i open my other hive of russians, same from kellys, and there are alot of drone cells and alot of drones. What would you do. Are they too gonna swarm. Should i kil off all the drone cells. I am building a super right now to hopfully stop them from swarming.

    Last question. How do i stop the queen from laying in my honey supper without and excluder. i would like to not use them as i hear it can make the bees not go up in the honey super but she keeps getting in the top super. The hive is 2 fulls and one shallow. Any suggestions or do i have to use a excluder

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
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    Any colony which swarms will always have queen cells or at least a newly hatched queen; it needs to provide itself with a new laying machine. Personally I think I'd split it into two if I had the equipment, then recombine once both queens were laying. That would discourage any tendency to throw after swarms while at the same time providing against the possibility of a queen failing to mate. Otherwise break down all but one cell and leave it to hatch. They may well be hatching already, of course.

    Drones are perfectly normal and not a sign of swarm preparation; just leave them be, they keep the hive happy. I use excluders for a few weeks in spring until the bees have formed an arch of honey above the broodnest, then take them out. I've never had any problems. Others probably have more relevant experience here.

    ------------------
    Regards,

    Robert Brenchley

    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    If you destroy the drones cells the bees will just make more at great effort and expense of their resources.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >Last question. How do i stop the queen from laying in my honey supper without and excluder. i would like to not use them as i hear it can make the bees not go up in the honey super but she keeps getting in the top super. The hive is 2 fulls and one shallow. Any suggestions or do i have to use a excluder

    Ways to discourage a queen from laying outside of the brood nest:

    If you have a crown of capped honey above her, the queen usually won't cross it to lay.

    If you have 7/11 foundation in the supers the queen doesn't usually like to lay in it.

    If you have a queen discourager (put an unbound excluder 90 degrees from the usually position or a piece of plywood with holes in the corners) the bees can pass easily and the queen generally won't want to.

    My theory is you use ALL the same size boxes and all the same size foundation and who cares where she lays? If she needs the room I'd rather she'd lay in the supers and they didn't swarm.

    Basically this is the Unlimited Brood Nest philosphy. Let the queen have whatever she wants to lay in.

    If you absolutely cannot abide the queen laying in the supers, then use an excluder. I prefer either the rounded plastic kind (not punched) or the wood bound metal ones, but the flat unbound metal ones are ok too.


  5. #5
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    <Michael Bush wrote: My theory is you use ALL the same size boxes and all the same size foundation and who cares where she lays? If she needs the room I'd rather she'd lay in the supers and they didn't swarm.

    Basically this is the Unlimited Brood Nest philosphy. Let the queen have whatever she wants to lay in.>

    Ok my problem is i have a hard time finding her if the hive is 3 supers deep. I dont know where she is. I also dont know how to move all those boxes around in what order to find here.
    That is why i dont like her up there. Any suggestions on that then i can keep the excluders out. I would love for her to have free range, but i really hate the job of finding her. I am always afraid of killing her in the process of moveing all those frames to find her.

    thanks for your answer

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mineral, Virginia
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    188

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    Doesn't the search for the queen become very nearly not necessary though? I'm not making a case for my own short comings so much as making a case for an atomic accelerator; If we find eggs, good brood pattern, good colony distribution, stable honey/pollen production and no real sign of unusual irradic hive construction, then isn't all well? If we see all the indications she is there and productive, isn't she then there?

    I can give you the ENTIRE LIST of inidicators she has left the building. Oh yeah. Last time I saw my queens was last spring; when I put them in the boxes. I did find one one time, but the other I never saw again.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rochester, Washington, USA
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    I've gotten to reversing the brood boxes and/or moving the brood from up above to the bottom box, being careful not to shake them too much in case the queen is on one. I replace the frames I removed w/empty. Seems to work in keeping the queen in the bottom. Perhaps it's the wrong way, I've made mistakes before. I try to leave the 2 outer frames on either side alone which would mean 6 brood frames, 4 honey pollen. If I'm wrong in doing this ----someone please tell me!!!!!!!!!!!

    ------------------
    'WHEN WE CLOSE OUR EYES WE ALL LOOK THE SAME' GWPW 03

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    #1 I would reverse boxes to keep her down if you did not want to use an excluder.
    #2 I would rather let her run where she wants and settle on the fact she will move into supers.
    #3 Learn to use an excluder properly, at the right time, and with an upper entrance, and you will not have problems getting them to use the supers above any excluder. Bees will not move up and use the next super whether you have an excluder or not untill they are ready. Most people who speak bad about excluders put them on early and have no patience. Bait them if needed, and use an upper entrance. Not only does it work but it help with overcrowding and ventelation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >Ok my problem is i have a hard time finding her if the hive is 3 supers deep. I dont know where she is. I also dont know how to move all those boxes around in what order to find here.

    I don't use deeps, so I can actually lift the boxes even if they are full of honey.

    There is a whole section on finding a queen. With practice you'll find you get pretty good at looking where there are lots of bees and how they are acting and you can pull the frame she's one in one or two tries.

    But until then, look for the most concentration of bees in that box. Pull a frame off the end and pry them all over enough to pull that frame with the most bees and look. Is there brood on that frame? If not, she probably isn't here. Set that box off on another bottom or the inner cover or whatever and look at the next box. Repeat. Find the frame with the most bees. Pull an end frame out and move the frames over enough to pull that frame and look for brood. If there is brood, look for the queen. Work your way from that one to the ones on each side and look at them for the queen. After a while you usually only have to look at a few frames. She's seldom on the end (I have found her there on occasion). She is seldom on a frame that isn't well covered with bees. All I can say is it takes practice.

    There is nothing wrong with using an excluder. If you mange a lot, you can probably keep a queen in one deep ten frame box with an excluder on. You will have to unclog the brood nest when it gets full of honey etc. but it will make it easy to find the queen.

    I'd rather give her four mediums boxes or three deeps to work with, but you can run a hive a lot of different ways and still succeed.

    >I am always afraid of killing her in the process of moveing all those frames to find her.

    Just move slowly and carefully. (Not fun when you're trying to set down a 100lb deep box full of honey).

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