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Is there really a Bolling Bee

25K views 170 replies 42 participants last post by  Hi-Tech 
#1 ·
Yes I know this is a subject already discussed. But I thought a new thread to update and find out how anyone made out would be nice, now that my patience is running out.

I have tried to contact via phone and I get the answering service which then promptly says that for some reason a message can not be left at this time. I have also e-mailed. This last time requesting the queens be sent, or a full refund would be expected. Days I can understand. Weeks border on the edge. Months are just unbelievable. I am still waiting for a "confirmed" ship date for the third week of April.

Has anyone been able to recieve anything? Can you actually contact someone? I have not recieved any phone call, mail, or correspondance of any sort in regards to the prepaid order I made in January.

Is there any members on beesource that has Alabama numbers to Better business bureau contacts, State attorneys offices, or other agencies who deal with this matter. Does anyone know of interstate business procedures and time allowances for such matters? Can complaints be made without sending certified letters? Would this be the next step to "confirm" that they actually did recieve something from me?

What were the requirements for being listed on beesource as a supplier? Were these producers just taken from a bee mag or list? And at what point are the members of this board not being served to the point that a producers number and listing should be removed?

Thank you.
 
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#102 ·
I will be returning from Denmark on Wed. I spoke to Livings a couple weeks back and I said I wanted the bees in the mail by the time I arrive or a check. I said he can decide and contact me on the 15th. Something tells me I will be playing phone tag for the next couple weeks. Not. Regardless of all those who feel differently, I will be calling everyone and anyone who can help, assist, to end this saga. Sorry if this includes the sherrif, or anyone else.

It is in the best interest of all involved, that full refunds should be offered, with the initial contact being made by bolling bee. For a new beekeeper this is and probably will be tragic for starting so late. I wonder if nobody ever called or asked for money back how late in the year he would be shipping these bees.

I really wonder about those who openly supported and defended a missed due date in the interest of bad weather. Can this really be bad weather? I bet Mr. Livings was so happy to hear all those who are still sympathetic and supportive and plan on ordering in the future. I hope they stick to thier convictions. A day yes. A week, yes. A month, your asking alot. Two months, unbelievable. A missed season, those who order again are idiots.

I still am amazed that I can say a "nasty" word and potentially be kicked off the board. But a supplier who obviously has wronged many, can continue to be supported and advertised on the board.
 
#106 ·
The poll I posted "Supplier Ratings" shows an 88% interest in doing some type of Rating system.
It doesn't have to be EXACTLY like eBAY or photo.net, these were only suggestions. In this thread there seems to be other names that surface which give less than good service. So I believe a rating system would be useful.
Michael, as moderator of this forum,do you have any suggestions as to how to go about getting some type of rating forum added to this web site?
Can we kick around some design suggestions for consideration?
 
#110 ·
Mark,how is expecting an honest return for giving of one's money, or being forced to having one's plans put on hold for a year because of an unreputable supplier "getting out of hand"? That's what's going on here, and you think that's alright? Conduct all business on "blind" faith??
I think not!
 
#111 ·
I don't do buisness on blind faith,I try to do my homework,Not to say that I havn't been took.
I'm sure that Bjornbee,Thought that he was doing the same & believe me I do feel for him,To me that is awful,setting him back a year,also I know I'll never deal with Bolling Bee co.
You stated above that you got an 88% interest in the rating system,From what?,there is alittle over 2000 members,so you got a respond from 1700+ members?
JMO,This is not a sales group like E-bay,
Heaven knows not in Bjornbee's place,But alot of times there is 2 sides of the coin,
With that said, I guess I'm in the 12% or 300+ that as I stated above think this is getting out of hand. as I said JMO,>>>>Mark
 
#112 ·
The problem with an online rating system will be verifying information. Although the information on Bolling Bee is overwhelming we had a bit of a dispute over bees shipped from Weeks in Georgia to Ohio that were infested with beetles. We have 1 individual giving us facts (at least he made them sound like facts) like he knew what he was talking about and was close to the source. Then we had rebuttal from 2 or three other very credible members and suddenly individual #1 is strangely silent. Too few of the 2700 or so members actually post to get a cross section large enough to get us to the bare bones of a true evaluation on any scale large enough to have value. I think the method we use now is pretty reliable thanks to the dedication of a few. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
#113 ·
a supplier review section added to the forum could easily allow people to post reviews if they wanted, whether it was a good or a bad review.
while we all know a supplier can't possibly have all satisfied customers and even companys that have excellent service, could get a bad review every once in awhile.
this allows people to make a decision on choosing a supplier based on other peoples reviews if the supplier has bad service or does not deliver on a regular basis they will stand out by having alot of bad reviews and very few if any good reviews.
while they will not be very many members that post reviews there is more than enough members for the small number of suppliers of bees or bee equipment.
 
#115 ·
Well said bejay. I doubt that just because there is a place for one to place a rating, folks would stuff the "ballot box" with negatives or positives. If a supplier had 50 positive ratings and 5 negatives, what would this tell you? For me, I'd look at how close together the negatives were that might give an indication of a recent change in business practice that may have gone sour for this particular supplier. Otherwise, a random scattering of 5 negatives would tell me that there are probably just 5 bull headed individuals that just can't be pleased. Isn't this what they refer to in a Gallup Poll when they talk about a +/- 3% margin of error??
Take this current thread, I'd say that if there were a rating system in place, there'd be a rash of negatives grouped together in about a two-month time frame by different folks. Enough anyway that it would catch my interest, and if I was considering using this supplier, I'd investigate further by contacting some of the folks who gave negative ratings and also the supplier himself for his side. If one's name was associated with his given rating, I'm sure that it wouldn't take long to see who the folks are that just can't be pleased in any way!
So let's say you’re a supplier who just received a negative rating. I'd like to think that you'd treat a negative rating like a bounced check, resolve it quickly.
When I say negative rating, I mean NEGATIVE, DATE, and POSTER. No need for allowing some type of lengthy emotional diatribe. This way one could email privately the poster for his reasons on the negative rating.
The system would have a 30 day grace period for the two parties to get together, and resolve their differences before the rating becomes permanent. The supplier can contact the poster in order to make resolution. In the case of a negative, resulting from none delivery of bees, the supplier can come through and deliver the bees as promised or refund the amount of money paid. Something worked out that is agreeable to both parties. It would require some give and take by both sides.
Once an agreeable resolution has been made, both parties could email the moderator stating that the problem has been worked out, and the negative rating can then be upgraded to a neutral by the moderator. A neutral rating means that an existing problem was resolved with an agreeable solution to both parties.
This forum has 2000+ members, which I'm sure, not all will post any type of rating. Even if a supplier had 30 ratings, I'm sure by seeing what the majority of the ratings are, one could estimate the risk factor should he decide to use this supplier.
I'd look at several neutral ratings as perhaps someone starting in the business that just hasn’t worked out the fine details (no MBA) yet, but is very willing to work hard at learning and resolving all issues as they arise. I wouldn't have a problem using this supplier as he's demonstrated that he's willing to work things out.
Then again, you might even see those suppliers who'd laugh at the system and do nothing! Perfectly willing to except negative ratings, forgoing any effort to resolve problems. This says something for itself also.
What I've outlined above is just me thinking out loud in order to hopefully get something moving in a positive direction. I know there will be some of you who'll tear this apart without adding something in return. That's fine, this is just meant to be a straw man! What I've said is in no way an absolute perfect answer to the problem, but I'd like to think it is a catalyst to getting something in place that does work for us all, whether we decide to post to it or not.
 
#116 ·
I think any rating system would be flawed. Just looking at the problems of the past or observations....

A few times there was a big influx of comments concerning one product or another coming from one particular area of a country. Only upon questioning did it materialize that some of the comments were from those who had direct influence and vested interest in the product mentioned. How could you keep some from logging on multiple computors and saturating posts for there own gain? I may be wrong but at least ebay's comments can not be influence by the seller or producer directly as it could be on a forum such as this.

What about instead of a product, the conversation or rating chat carried over to a process also. Can you imagine someone actually questioning or commenting on something like FGMO negatively? It borders on blasphemy. You will get no "God bless you" or "brother" comments unless you are totally supportive and only say what some want to hear. Anything less and its "I'm taking my ball and going home". I can not even question two conflicting recently posted comments on the subject. MB says that FGMO only kills off mites with repeated applications and is a control method not designed to eliminate all mites. That you will always have some. Than Dr. R says a few posts later, that he has been "mite free" for 12 years. If I was too actually ask about these comments, I would be labeled as a non-supportor and comments to this would be posted as such. (And we really do not need to go into looking at all the conflicting statements made about 100% this, or other questionable statements that do not add up over the years.) My point is that in evauluation something such as Bee-o-pac, its not only the plastic used that you want comments on, its the actual use and effectiveness also. We can debate which oil is best, but could we discuss openly and even question the field use and results of something like FGMO on an even keel?

And what if I did not like Jim Fisher. Would it be correct for me to comment as I am sure it could happen, that his product is not effective? I have not met the man, am not interested in doing so, but could his antics and comments effect a ratings system? Could go either way, good or bad I suppose. Would a recent post from him in which he cleverly comments and overly states "third man from the right", and than openly states that other recent comments by members are the "smell" of something other than a snowball. Could this come into play for some? Could be. Some products have great effectiveness and results, but the inventor or person behind the product is a lousy salesman, this resulting in some impact of comments.

What about me? I am sure for some, my comments seem over the top. ("over your head" would be proper. Duh. Oh shoot, there I go again.) And can we really ever get over the "which hand wipes the butt comment". This has been devestating for some. Almost a reoccurring nightmare that keeps playing over and over in some peoples mind. That comment alone has denied some the actual use a a library computor as it resulted in a ban for access to this site. Could my "fun-time" on this site effect some ratings system? Would those who actually met me have the same opinion. In a perfect world everyone would just comment on the product in a unbiased way. But were human. Bias, ego's, self promotion, personal feelings, and other items, would and could flaw a ratings system.

I think it better for open dialog and chat between beekeepers. I did start the "credit where credit is due" post awhile back. I am not afraid to comment positively as much as negatively. What kills me is the bleeding heart types who just feel anything negative is bad. That we should be some "band of brothers" who should not comment anything less than postive. The "were all beekeeper" comments do little to help. Were all human beings, but there are alot of different groups we could stick people into. Some I would want to deal with and some not. Other peoples experiences help me make those dicisions. Only hearing the good is not best. I want to know who I can depend on, and I also want to hear which ones I should avoid.

What should happen is some control as the level of compentence and service in maintaining a place to advertise on this site. I know its Barry's site so this is just my opinion. But the protection of members, and the "right" to advertise here should have some level of critia. Maybe my level is different than some. I am just questioning the ability to have someone advertise, when members needs are not being met. I specifically took the information and phone number from this site. I would hate for new members just logging on to go through what I did, just because they looked to this forum for information.

I spoke to Mr. Livings last night. I said I was back in town. I asked whether my 12 queens or a check was in the mail. He said that he would rather send me the check. My ship date was two months ago, and I am now getting my money back. Anyone reading this who is still waiting should take heed as to that last sentence.

I wish the best to Mr. Livings in the future. Many were correct in saying he is very nice to speak too. Unfortunately I would rather deal with a much less nice person,....say someone like Jim F (just kidding of course), and actually recieve my product.
 
#117 ·
I agree completely with BjornBee.

For anyone to presume to "rate" a business, they
are first assuming that they have an impartial
and complete view. They don't. I had a heck of
a time convincing bee supply dealers to support
our no-hassle guarantee, as nearly all of them
said that beekeepers are among the worst whiners
and complainers on the planet. I think our
actual experience has shown them that beekeepers
are pretty easy to get along with, as the "return
rate" has been less than the amount that
evaporates when mixing up batches.

But anyone bothering to contribute a "rating"
would either be "very happy" or "very unhappy"
about something specific.

Given that the members of this group number less
than 1% of US beekeepers, the results would
always be skewed one way or the other, and an
accurate view would never result.

> I have not met the man,

I thought we met at EAS 2004. Weren't you
the fellow who supplied the hives for the
workshop apiary?

> am not interested in doing so,

I'm deeply hurt.

> but could his antics and comments effect
> a ratings system?

"Antics"? Moi?
Hello Pot, I'm the Kettle!
 
#118 ·
Kettle, I did supply some of the hives and desease samples for the 2004 EAS. I did not however attend. Perhaps it answers some question in my mind as to you thinking I am another. It probably led to a much lower evaluation of myself by you, based on this encounter.


I am sure this "other" person could not of been as charming, handsome, and witty, as the actual "me" is.


I am also sure our paths will cross one day. Just go easy on the "french".


Don't you just love that yellow head figure.
Anyone still reading this post and has not recieved an order from bolling bees needs to go back and read the last post by me on page 5 of this thread. You may be waiting for awhile.
 
#120 ·
BjornBee, Jim Fischer, all great comments. BjornBee, I have to agree with your comment on FGMO. If you're not a disciple of the FGMO cult, then you are indeed not welcome! LOL
I wanted to expound on one of Jim's comments concerning rating a business. I would rather think that we are rating a transaction, which the sum total of determines the rating of the business.
Now the conversations have veered off into the direction of evaluating products, which is something a little different. Ask a hundred beekeepers to evaluate a product and you'll get a hundred different answers!
I guess I was hoping for something that would help me a year or two down the road when I was ready to make another purchase of equipment, bees, etc. Two years from now, when ordering bees, will we all remember Bolling Bee? In this thread Bullseye made a hint concerning some other suppliers. I don't know if it was made in humor, or if there was substance behind it. Don't exactly know. Never the less, two years from now that information might come in handy also. Evaluation of a product is one thing, but what seems to be out and out thievery, is another.
I say thievery, because funds were paid, and no product of equal value was given in return. It's just of late, that someone is finally going to have their funds returned. Remember the damaged extractor, it took a few emails in order to get a replacement tank sent. Had there not been a replacement sent, the extractor as a whole would probably been useless. As it stands today, no one even cares whether the extractor works, great, okay or terrible, which wasn't the issue. The whole issue was whether a supplier was going to stand behind a transaction that resulted in an unusable product to begin with. And that supplier came through! Who was that again by the way?
These are transactions, which have the potential where a person was going to, or has incurred a 100% loss. These are the ones worth noting , so that two years from now we'll have ready access to these comments and know to shy away from a transaction with these suppliers. Shy away that is, if we cannot stand to take the loss.
Otherwise in two years I may just have to email you individually to ask about whom that was that was taking orders and money for bees back in the spring of 05, but not delivering the goods?

Now for an evaluation rating, Bullseye, you were saying you had an outstanding source of supply for branding irons? Irons that burnt deep into the wood? Oh come on now Bullseye, I was just trying to interject a little humor here! I'm trying to keep this on the light side…..Gee, we're not discussing a source of supply for pure Thymol crystals or something!
 
#121 ·
>Bullseye, you were saying...

Let me be clear here. I buy a lot of stuff from a lot of different places.

Only once had I not gotten my packages, even when ordered Jan 1. McCary.

Only once was I burned for a bad product that did not do what it was advertized to do. Brand New. NEVER EVER BUY... well you know.

All other times the products were shipped but damaged by the shippers. The shippers have been my real problem, and they will go to great lengths not to honor the insurance claim. It's no wonder that the sellers do not want to go through the hassle.

It is extremely important that you inspect your shipment before you sign for it. Be warned.

It took going to the top dog, and your help, to get relief for my extractor problem, but Steve at Brushy Mountain took care of it. It is a fine piece of equipment and works great.

Customer satisfaction? 99%
 
#122 ·
>>Only once was I burned for a bad product that did not do what it was advertized to do. Brand New. NEVER EVER BUY... well you know.
Yep its like they made it out of some metal that wont absorb heat!A good iron will get redhot.This one wont.If you push on it real hard for a minute-you can get a half*** brand around a sixteenth of an inch.Wow.
 
#123 ·
But anyone bothering to contribute a "rating"
would either be "very happy" or "very unhappy"
about something specific.
I used to own a bookstore. Folks who came in were always in a good mood and had a good time, but that's what they were there for. Walk into an auto parts store on a hot July afternoon and everyone is grumpy. Something's broken or worn out and has to be fixed and it's not much fun. One would have to structure a rating system so that it wouldn't just be capturing the extremes of customer satisfaction.
 
#124 ·
Glad I stumbled across this thread about Bolling Bee. I sent my deposit in last November for a package after leaving Mr. Livings a message on his voice mail. He promptly called back that morning. That was the last I heard from Mr. Livings. He cashed my check. He has not responded to multiple messages on his voice mail, multiple letters with delivery confirmation acknowledgements, and multiple e-mails. It is clear he has no intention of shipping my package, giving me a refund, or even communicating with me. There is no amount of bad weather, family matters, or other specious claims that can justify what he has done to me. I cannot tolerate a thief and those who would make excuses for Bolling Bee farm don't know what they are talking about. I do.
 
#125 ·
I'm glad you stumbled across this site as well. You'll fit right in with the rest of the crowd that thinks they are the only ones that know what they are talking about.

You obviously have never given anyone the benefit of the doubt either have you?

If every one of us were to influence those around us by a bad experience we have had, where would we be? I'm sure that everyone on this board has had a bad experience with one beekeeper or another, if that one bad experience were all it took to check that supplier off the list, who would we be able to buy from? There would be nobody on the list.
 
#126 ·
Welcome, Borgnik. Please forgive Phoenix.
He must have had a difficult day.

Of course you "know what you are talking about",
as you are simply relating your own experience,
and calling 'em as you see 'em.

While your conclusion may still be proven
wrong by a refund, its now JULY, and anyone
still without bees, still without a refund,
and still without an explanation by now has
clearly suffered an "actionable breech of
contract".

Beedawg is member of the group and an assistant
prosecutor, perhaps he can be enlisted to give
an opinion of the applicability of Alabama's
mail fraud (checks go in the mail) and wire
fraud (there's a website) statutes. After all,
no one would want to go and make a federal case
out of it, would they?

Many excuses were possible back when it was
"the season" for queen producers to be very
busy, when the weather was so lousy, and so
on. But it is now months later, so the
passage of time alone forces a rational person
to be far less forgiving.
 
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