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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Greetings . . .

    I am having difficulty finding "expeller-processed soybean flour" and "brewer's yeast" (animal feed??).

    Health-food stores think Im crazy when I ask for flour thats been expeller processed. Guess Im looking for a by-product of the extracted oil?

    Brewer's yeast implies; something used for "home-brew", but I have read is also some kind of aminal feed.

    Help or suggestions?

    thanx


    ------------------
    Dave W . . .

    A NewBEE with 1 hive.
    First package installed
    April, 2003.

  2. #2

    Post

    What I first used was powdered soy milk. They went crazy for the stuff and made lots of early brood with it. The reason we use expeller-processed soybean flour is it is cooked and has the oil taken out of it. In the heating process this makes the protien in it digestable for the bees to use. If you do not need a large amount just us the powdered soy milk from (now foods).

  3. #3

    Post

    Sorry I missed something. If you go to any grain elevator they will carry it. about $8-12 per 100 lb. Make sure they do not use solvents in the process as some do.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    Here in Calif. some of the commercial outfits are open feeding yeast/soy flour /sugar supplements right now.The idea is to let the bees have something to work on thats good for them rather than annoying people by buzzing around chicken feeders and saw dust piles.They put it out during dry spells between storms.Dadant and Mann Lake both sell a ready to feed mix.Dont buy anything for your bees at a health food store.It will kill them!

    [This message has been edited by loggermike (edited December 30, 2003).]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    The best thing to add to pollen substitute is pollen. The more the better. In fact, if it's all pollen that's even better. I try to shoot for half real pollen at least and whole pollen if I have enough. Keep pollen fresh in the freezer until you use it.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    Kind of reminds me of margerine commercials. The best butter commercial I ever saw said. "You never hear us claim we taste like margerine."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Smile

    Well . . . sometimes, what is best, is not possible.

    I dont have pollen to feed whole or to SUPPLEMENT, so I thought if I needed it, I might try a SUBSTITUTE made from something else.

    Im hesitant to buy anything, may not need it.

    thanx

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    You can buy pollen from Brushy Mt, Draper and others, but it is expensive. Even a little mixed in makes a huge difference in nutrition and therfore in the longevity of the bees produced from it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    Because disease(especially chalkbrood )can be spread by adding pollen,many no longer use it.Bee Wranglers secret ingredient is a good idea.I just use brewers yeast and syrup,and the bees eat it up quick at the time of year its needed.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    Dadant will send you 5 lbs of their Brood Builder substitute for 7.15 plus shipping.I havent tried it but am sure its OK.Whether or not it will benefit your bees under your conditions no one can say.I'd give it a shot.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Question

    It seems many have tried other things, will the yeast used to bake bread be OK?

  12. #12

    Post

    (Dont buy anything for your bees at a health food store.It will kill them!)
    this is not true!!! I buy the soy milk at a health food store and I have tried the powdered soy power shake and open fed both of them and never had a issue. Bread yeast is not what you want for bee feed. what you want is used and dried brewers yeast that is left over after beer is made. that is what they are refering to.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Wink

    >Dont buy anything for your bees at a health food store.It will kill them!)
    Sorry about that!I was just trying to be funny.Seriously,though,some ingredients that sound like the right thing can harm the bees,such as some types of soy flour,and off spec.corn syrup.I am unsure of active yeasts,I supposed the dried brewers yeast we get in 50 pound bags is inactive.Buying from bee supply dealers will insure that the ingredients will not harm the bees.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    My question on this thread is why are you using a substitute (what is your reason)? How do you know if you need this substitute? Have you actually checked your pollen stores? (this is to stimulate conversation not start a war on natural vs. artificial feeding)

    [This message has been edited by Clayton (edited January 01, 2004).]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    Actually ,I prefer to call them protein supplements,rather than a pollen substitute,because we all know there is NO substitute for pollen.There have been plenty of studies showing that feeding a protein supplement can help bees overcome stressful situations such as early brood raising,where there may not be sufficient pollen stores,or the pollen available is low quality.My bees have started raising brood right now.These winter bees are going to be wearing out rapidly if they dont have lots of protein. In 2 weeks we will start feeding light ones but all will get protein patties.We dont want to deliver stressed out colonies to the almond orchards.Some areas will have excellent fall pollen flows so will have plenty of stored pollen,but surveys(Hive and the Honey Bee)showed many areas of the US to be deficient in stored pollen.You have to know your own area to make the decision on whether its a waste of money.
    (I like to think we can all express our opinions here without starting a war.)
    This explains it better: http://apis.ifas.ufl.edu/apis88/apoct88.htm

    [This message has been edited by loggermike (edited January 01, 2004).]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Actually the bulletin board here at beesource is actually one of the most open minded places for beekeepers on the net. (you know I didn't really think a war would break out on this, I hope)

    Actually ,I prefer to call them protein supplements,rather than a pollen substitute,because we all know there is NO substitute for pollen.

    reply:

    I agree. That is the wording I would use too but chose to use the original words used on this thread.

    There have been plenty of studies showing that feeding a protein supplement can help bees overcome stressful situations such as early brood raising,where there may not be sufficient pollen stores,or the pollen available is low quality.

    reply:

    Yes. Farrar had some very nice studies on this. Mike, what I was getting at was how would you teach and show a begginner what to look for so they would know whether or not they lived in such and area? Also the reason needed for the supplementation (such as to make earrly divides). The pros and cons to both approaches?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    What I look for in this area from around Aug15 through Sept.:Is there lots of healthy brood being raised(these are your wintering bees).Is there an abundance of pollen being stored in the combs on either side of the brood nest,and around the edges of the brood?Is there a mix of various pollens being actively gathered(some pollen is very low in nutrients,and the brood will refect that.A mix is best).This is also the time to evaluate and replace any poor queens.The condition of the hive in early spring is a direct result of the previous falls conditions(often poor in Cal.)The best way for a beginner to find out is to ask the local beekeepers in the area about this.Ask the one who has been in business the longest!(she must be doing something right)Clayton ,you are right,this is a good subject to discuss for the benefit of those just starting out.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    I have heard the following statements over the years.Any comments?
    1.I tried feeding this crap to bees before.I never noticed any benefit.It was a total waste of money.The bees did just fine without it.

    2.I fed it because others did who seemed to know what they were doing and the studies I saw seemed to show a benefit.

    3.My bees would dwindle in the fall and be weak in the spring.But since feeding protein supplements in the fall and spring,my colonies are in the best shape ever.

  19. #19

    Post

    I have always fed it it a open container. If they need/want it they will come and get it. When I have open fed I have seen some hives bringing it in and others do not. Does this mean they have plenty of stored pollen? Do they naturaly want to hoard it when they can find it even if they do not need it. They sure are cool little creatures.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >I have heard the following statements over the years.Any comments?
    1.I tried feeding this crap to bees before.I never noticed any benefit.It was a total waste of money.The bees did just fine without it.

    I have heard that here before.

    2.I fed it because others did who seemed to know what they were doing and the studies I saw seemed to show a benefit.

    That is what prompted me to try the Bee-Pro patties.


    3.My bees would dwindle in the fall and be weak in the spring.But since feeding protein supplements in the fall and spring,my colonies are in the best shape ever.

    This was my experiance with the Bee-Pro patties, however I also use grease patties as well as supplying syrup.



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