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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
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    2,837

    Question

    Greetings . . .

    "Only dumb questions are ones not asked", I hope this is true [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Will bees draw frames that are WIRED?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    They will draw them. I haven't done them wired. The closest I've come to doing this is a 1/16" rod hroizontally in the middle of a Dadant Deep. They connected it well enough. Dee Lusby says foundationless works better with vertical wires because they can follow the wire down instead of getting a ways down and the wire may, or may not, land in the center depending on how level the hive is and how well the frames are straight in the hive. I think an "X" or a "W" would have some of the best of both worlds since they can follow it down and you get some cross bracing strength. I haven't found it necessary on mediums. But the Dadant deep combs were a bit wobbly so I put in the horizontal rod to help with that. I suppose a verticl one would have worked but the holes were already there for the horizontal so I tried it and it worked well enough. Maybe regular wire would work just as well as the rod.

    http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/images/DadantDeep1.jpg

    http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/ima...nlessDrawn.JPG
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Jenison, MI
    Posts
    1,514

    Post

    Here are some other conversations about it...

    http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...=001825#000000
    http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...=002229#000005
    http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...=001659#000000

    I plan on trying it with horizonally 4-wire deeps with a starter strip, so I hope it works. I would imagine that if the X and the horizontal rod works fine that they wouldn't have much trouble with the wires or strings. (that is easy to say, never having tried it!)

    -rick

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    MrBEE:

    Many times you have described "starter strips" and how they are used. Once or maybe twice, you have "tossed in" a comment about "side guides", please explain.

    Thank you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    Explain starter strips or side guides?

    "Comb guide" is a term invented, as far as I know by Rev. L.L. Langstroth. He used the term and put them on the top and sides on his original frames (see the original book or a reprint of the original "Hive and the Honey Bee" by Langstroth http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books )

    His guides were a triangle shaped piece of wood on the bottom of the top bar and on the end bars.

    A side guide such as this encourages the attachment of the comb to the end bars of the frame. The bees will do it anyway eventually, but it will speed the process. You can also put one on the bottom.

    The Dadant deep in the picture link above has side guides on it.

    I've only botherd to put them on the Dadant deep because the comb is so large and heavy and it needs attachments sooner than the bees seem inclined to build them. It probably woulnd't need them if I wasn't picking up the frame.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,410

    Post

    On the mediums without wires, you have to be careful handling them before they are attached at the bottom. It is much like handling top bar comb. I have had one or two collapse in the Texas heat, probably my fault. Also, you have to watch the bees closely while they are beginning to draw it. I have had them cross comb or build from the bottom. Michael has discovered that a single drawn frame near the middle helps them get started right. Also, do not try 9 frames while they are drawing them out. They will make a mess.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    Correct on all counts. You learn to manage just a little differently. But I've had the same problem with 9 frames of bare foundation getting messed up.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    I guess my bees liked to make unstraight comb to much for the one frame in the middle like MB suggested. I put a foundationless frame against one side of the box the a drawn comb then 2 undrawn then another drawn ect. I was not using starter strips though I was just using the pointed top bar with a ball of wax rubbed acrossed it. It was hard for me last year to get enough straight combs with only 3 medium hive bodies carried over from the year before(I have 2 single deep hives for sale soon LOL). This year I have several well drawn combs in which to use to get them started.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,553

    Post

    If you want to do a foundationless every other frame between drawn comb then you can just use an empty frame with no comb guide.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    North Salem, NY
    Posts
    329

    Post

    What do you guys think about inserting shallow foundationless frames between drawn mediums and then using the extra comb built from the bottom bar of the frame for comb honey? will the bees attach this extra comb to the top bar of the frame below? I'm guessing yes Is there any way I can avoid this? like some type of coating on the top bars below?

    justgojumpit

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    >What do you guys think about inserting shallow foundationless frames between drawn mediums and then using the extra comb built from the bottom bar of the frame for comb honey?

    It's only an inch wide. Not a very big chunk of comb honey.

    > will the bees attach this extra comb to the top bar of the frame below?

    Not at first, but eventually, yes. From my experience, at first they'll leave a beespace on the bottom. If you pull it soon enough it could work. Attaching the bottom will be the last thing they do with it.

    > Is there any way I can avoid this? like some type of coating on the top bars below?

    FGMO on the top bars below will make it more difficult for them to attach it. But it will only delay it a little bit longer.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    North Salem, NY
    Posts
    329

    Post

    an inch... that would be perfect for my chunk comb honey production. Thanks Michael!

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