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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Pinewood Minnesota
    Posts
    124

    Post

    Remember reading some of the perma comb debate earlier in the year, and am debating on getting some to try. Please remind me of your pro/con experiences with it.steve
    If your pulling a trigger, it really isn't bowhunting

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    >Vegetarian is just the indian word for poor hunter

    And what is Humanitarian? An Indian word for Cannibal? It's true. All the old ones seem to know every edible plant there is, but if they can, they just eat meat.

    If you search on PermaComb you'll find a lot of discussions on it. I think the main one is in the equipment forum.

    Almost everything that I thought I would hate about it I've learned to love.

    It's too short (by standard measurments of a medium), but I've learned to like that. Regardles of if you shorten the boxes or not or add a piece on the bottom or not they will still fill that gap and make a solid wall of comb from top to bottom. This gives the "effect" of a Dadant deep, having a large unbroken comb for the queen to move from one box to the next on. It also makes a place for them to raise drone. And since the drone are between the boxes I get an automatic mite inspection by opening the drone brood because I pulled a frame, or a box. The bees clean out the drone (drone magnet trapping) that got opened and life is good.

    They only come in mediums and it was part of the force that drove me to go to all mediums. Thank you Mr. Seets. I'm glad I did.

    There are no spacers built in, so you either have to put in spacers or space them yourself. I use a spacing "comb" to space the supers, if I use any there. I use the frame grip to space them in the brood boxes. I don't use the spacer bars because I mix them up all the time (like you're not supposed to do) with wood and wax or foundationless frames. I get away with it, probably, because it's wax coated. But that also allows me to crowd them to 11 frames in a 10 frame hive or 9 in an eight frame hive and I don't have to cut the end bars down.

    About the only downside I see is if they cap it too low, because it's the end of the flow etc., then you need a hackler honey punch or something similar to open it up to extract.

    They are expensive, but they last a long time. They are a bit heavy, but since you're in mediums it's not that bad. They sometimes bow a little if the ends get too tight. But I've been crowning studs and floor joists all my life, so I just crown them all the same way, if that happens.

    All in all, I like it a lot. But then, I wax dipped all of mine to get smaller cells, so acceptance was never a problem like it is with most plastic. With any plastic, once they use it, it's never a problem again.

    Permanant, fully drawn comb. Wow!
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    south river nj usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    michael you say you dip your plastic foundations?
    i just bought med plastic foundations with wood frames that cant be rmoved with out taking it all apart would you recommed dipping it all in wax or would brushing the hot wax on do just as well?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    No. I take full depth drawn plastic comb (NOT FOUNDATION) and heat it in an oven to 200 degrees F and dip it in wax and shake it off.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    460

    Post

    Michael,

    Do you have an electric oven or gas? I think I read you saying an electric oven wouldn't work well (or rather work too well) when heating the PC.

    Pugs

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    I put the PermaComb on a piece of cardboard in a gas preheated oven and I have a oven thermometer in the oven so I can double check the actual temperature. If it gets over 220 the plastic will melt.

    The radiant heat from an electric oven would catch the cardboard on fir and melt the plastic even if the air isn't 220 F.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    297

    Post

    Michael,

    Thanks for your directions on wax-coating permacomb. I now have 20 wax-coated combs ready to give to my Bush-bees this spring.

    Question: Do the bees work the paraffin out over time? Do you ever need to re-coat the plastic?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    I wouldn't ever recoat it. The bees just use it. If the cocoons fill it in too much they will chew them back out. The PermaComb works fine without the wax, but the wax gives you the smaller cells. The bees won't try to chew it out any larger than they need it to be, and that will only be after it fills in with cocoons.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    farmland ind randolph
    Posts
    35

    Post

    mike if one uses this schem could one regress in one year doing the shake down deal,also how long do you leave them in the oven
    buzz

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    I put a very small piece of wax foundation on the comb to see when the plastic was hot enough that the wax melted and ran on the plastic. I timed that and after that had an idea how long to leave them. Of course you HAVE to preheat and an electric oven will not work.

    Yes, you could do a shake down. I didn't. I just fed them into the brood chamber and kept pulling out empty frames, or frames of honey, or put capped brood above the excluder until I swapped out the centers of all the brood nests.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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