Dead Larva in front of hive?

**thesurveyor** · 03-29-2003, 06:52 AM

I checked my hives this morning. My strongest hive had about 15 dead larva out front. The larva looked like drones, but cannot be sure.

Anyone want to guess at what is going on? I read somewhere that brood may have gotten chilled and the bees pulled the larva out of the hive.

Curious to what you guys think.

Thanks
Thesurveyor

**odfrank** · 03-29-2003, 08:29 AM

I have been seeing a lot of this too. I think it is mite cleansing behavior. Do you have Harbo queens ? What is the other teminology ? SMR ?

**Michael Bush** · 03-29-2003, 08:41 AM

If they look like nice white larvae, I'd say it's hygenic behavior. You could also look for mites on them, but they probably died and fell off anyway. The bees probably pulled them out because of the mites. If they look nasty I'd look at the brood in the hive and make sure it looks healthy.

**hoosierhiver** · 03-29-2003, 10:44 AM

i've seen the same thing and agree with michael that it is probably mites,but i think it might also show that your hive has some hygenic qualities.

**thesurveyor** · 03-29-2003, 12:19 PM

Well, it could be a behavioral trait. I checked a little deeper into situation. I found three wax worms in the front of the hive. This may be my culprit.

I will keep an eye on things. Thanks for the responses. I just would not have thought moths could have pentrated that strong of a hive. I have bees on every frame and it is unbelievable how many bees are in that one hive.

I guess the moths are going to be worse again this year.

Thesurveyor

**Ian** · 03-29-2003, 04:25 PM

Perhaps the bees are pulled the drones out of damaged cells, after your last hive manipulation. Just a thought.

Ian

**Iowabeeman** · 03-30-2003, 07:22 AM

This may be normal spring housecleaning. Your area is a lot different from mine, but here, dead brood from the fall doesn't get kicked out until spring. If the larva is white, it's new, and you may have some problem.

**Michael Bush** · 03-30-2003, 08:22 AM

If it's white and new, I'd say you have what everyone is now trying to breed: Hygenic behavior. This is exactly what it is. The workers chew out the larvae that have mites in the cells. Of course, it also means there are mites, but maybe they are taking care of them.

Actually I've also seen them chew out brood when there is a pollen dearth.

[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited March 30, 2003).]

**thesurveyor** · 03-30-2003, 11:10 AM

They are white. They are new, When I did my last hive manipulation there were some drone cells built between the Permacomb and the frames on the brood chamber below. When I broke the comb pulling the permacomb box off the drones were already to the larva state. You could see mites on the larva. I scraped the broken comb off the to of the frames. Discarded it. So maybe you are right they are cleaning out the cells that are infested with mites. If only I could be so lucky.

Thanks for the comments. The hive is extremely strong. Temps were 78 degrees yesterday and snowing this morning with 33 degree temps. Calling for a major freeze tonight with temps rebounding into the 70's by mid week.

This is crazy weather and I am sure the bees are going to be hating it, if it freezes their honey flow plants tonight.

Thesurveyor

**AstroBee** · 03-30-2003, 02:08 PM

I noticed the same thing today. We got a cold snap last night and the temps have really dropped. I had several new, mite-free, white brood on the front of the bottom board, plus a small worm-like larva. Last Saturday, during the nice weather, I opened up the hive and did a complete inspection. Everything looked really good. The hive is strong and appears not to have a mite problem (this is based only upon drone brood uncapping). All uncapped brood were mite-free. I did, however notice that I have a new batch of small hive beetles. I killed about 8 adults, but didnÂ’t see any larva in the combs. IÂ’ve been working with the State of Virginia since last year for treatment of the SHB. The state apiarist has told the local beekeepers that hive manipulation appears to benefit the beetleÂ’s ability to get a foothold in a hive. I was wondering if anyone out there has heard similar things on the SHB.

Any recommendations on the best control strategies for the SHB are greatly appreciated.

**Iowabeeman** · 03-30-2003, 06:17 PM

if you are seeing mites on the larve, you probably need to treat. Stong colonies can hold a lot of mites before they crash. You can put a sticky board in and see what the natural mite fall is. Here in my area, the spring population probably averages 5 or frms of bees. I don't like to see more than four or five mites on a natural fall. Later in the year when the pop is higher they can tolerate more.

**clintonbemrose** · 03-31-2003, 09:06 AM

are these worms still alive? They might be the larva of the SHB. Be sure that they are dead or in several weeks you will have more SHB in your hive. Using Gardstar as a ground drench around the hives an under if you use a screened bottom board helps kill the larva. Use only at night and don't spray it as it is toxic to the bees. Using a sprinkler can I have found an application every 2 months works for me.
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

**AstroBee** · 03-31-2003, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the input Clinton! No, the worms were not still alive, but I believe that they are SHB larva. Last summer/fall the state treated my bee yard with Gardstar twice, but it looks like I still have a problem. Have you found that the Gardstar treatment has eliminated SHB in your hives? BTW, I found an interesting article in the BeeAware online newsletter on living with SHB. Check it out at:
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/PDFs/beeaware103.pdf

Thanks again.

**Michael Bush** · 03-31-2003, 11:38 AM

The other non-toxic method of control is move the hives somewhere else every year so the life cycle of the SHB is broken. As I understand, the larvae have to crawl out of the ground and into the hive.

**AstroBee** · 03-31-2003, 03:11 PM

Considering that SHB have a flight radius of about 6 miles, simply moving the hives may not necessarily be a viable option for many reasons. (I'm sure that the guy who is now within 6 miles of your freshly repositioned and SHB infected hive will not be too happy.) Also, moving the hive is not the answer if you have neighbors with infected hives who don't take similar measures. From all that I've read it appears that SHB can be considered to be approximately the same level of pest as the wax moth. Apparently honey house hygiene and colony strength are two very important factors. There are of course complicating factors with SHB not present with wax moths, namely the use of grease patties (not talking about TM patties) seems to promote SHB infestations. A hive without grease patties may be more susceptible to T. Mite problems. Looks like SHB are here to stay....just another challenge for the beekeeper.

**BULLSEYE BILL** · 04-01-2003, 06:57 PM

Last weekend I found half of a bright white PUPA (head and thorax), on the landing pad. I too was curious as to why it was picked out and discarded.
I thought that it may have been deformed, or the bees had some reason to toss it. I wouldn't know if it was wholly intact at the time it was purged.
Do you think that it would still be white after a week had I damaged it during my inspection and reversal?
Bill

**clintonbemrose** · 04-01-2003, 09:09 PM

Thanks for the input Clinton! No, the worms were not still alive, but I believe that they are SHB larva. Last summer/fall the state treated my bee yard with Gardstar twice, but it looks like I still have a problem. Have you found that the Gardstar treatment has eliminated SHB in your hives?

answer: I still see a few beetles but not like I was seeing before treatment. Also sence using Gardstar I have not seen any damage in the hives.
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

**Michael Bush** · 04-02-2003, 04:49 AM

I think the larvae are from brood, probably drone brood between frames, that was damaged in the last manipulation. If there is any damage at all to a brood cell the bees haul the pupae or larvae out. If they are skinnier and gray I'd say they were wax moth larvae.

**thesurveyor** · 04-02-2003, 06:28 AM

I also have pupa that have been discarded. Not sure what is going on. It was a full formed bee, nice and white, but there was only about 5 of these pupa out on the landing board. Or atleast that is all that I saw. Everything else looks normal.

Thanks

Thesurveyor

**thesurveyor** · 04-08-2003, 06:30 AM

Checked hives again yesterday evening. Have dead puppa laying on the landing board. The only times I see this, is when the temp makes extreme changes. Sat. we had almost 75 deg. and Sunday and Monday we had lows in the lower 40's and highs in the upper 40's. Could this have been chilled brood or is something else going on? I see this only in the strongest hives, might also note that the weather is rainy and very damp.

Thesurveyor

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