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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    The chances of killing the queen is minimal/next to nothing if the beekeeper is present and looks over the frame prior to the inspector shaking the bees. I always hand the frame to the beekeeper and ask that he verify no queen is on the frame. The beekeeper appreciates my concern with his bees, and I don't worry about beekeepers making comments/accusations about killing the queen.

    And if the beekeeper is present I also use his/her smoker, and hive tool. Many have had good comments about this type of concern shown toward them.

    I am sure the level of beekeeping experience is above average on this forum. But in reality the average beekeeper is not knowledgable on screens, fgmo, smallcell, or any other number of items. I also was shocked to learn how many beekeeper were near my operations, and how many had AFB and other problems. Three times last year I was holding frames of AFB from other beekeepers and looking at the next farm over where I had bees. Makes you wonder. I want fellow beekeepers that are not mite farmers, beetle farmers or afb culture labs.

    Some states do not have agriculture bases to justify yearly bee inspection budgets. Some states lost the support of the beekeeping community due to being bee police, instead of providing a service that includes education and instruction.

    For those states still having an inspection program, there are many positive things to come out of it. First, the beekeeper has an opportunity to meet and learn from an experienced beekeeper. And yes they should stay up on all the latest information. An inspection may mean more time "chatting" than actually looking at bees. Second, the inspector has a chance to learn from you. Many inspectors have taken jobs as inspectors, to rub elbows, learn, and gain experince about the industry. Most commercial beekeepers have been inspectors at one time or another. Third, it gives many beekeepers the opportunity to ride along with an inspector. Many individuals do not have access to bee clubs, or associations. Ask the inspector if they have a ride-along program. Alot of inspectors like the company.

    Much research is also conducted with universities, extension ag. programs, and in coordination with inspectors. Many inspectors volunteer thier own resources, as well as other beekeepers, in making some of the research possible. Much of the testing being conducted is not with university beehives but inspectors and beekeepers just like you and me. There are many side benefits to inspection programs.

    I can not tell you the number of times a beekeeper of many years, has asked me what a queen cell was, to show him a mite, or what an egg looks like. And almost all did not know they had SHB, AFB, or resistant hives. These beekeepers may be your neighbors. I want my fellow beekeepers to be informaed and inspected. Its good for them, good for me, and good for the industry. I do not know why anyone would not want thier bees looked at, as we all could learn from another.

    With all that said, I do not understand why killing bees is chosen over a sugar roll that does not.

    The comment about lighter fluid was my bad. The previous information stands regardless of what fluid is spoken of.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    Guys,
    The things not said here are resounding. Bruce, Why weren't you telling HIM how many mites you had by giving him the 3 day average from the screened bottom board trays. Why didn't you put into his hands the materials for a sugar roll? Hell, you've been here long enough. You are one of the elite. Don't mean to be critical but this isn't too tough to do.

    Dickm

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Dick...... Thanks for the "elite" status. In reality I am fairly unsure of myself although gaining each day.

    The inspector had 6 years of commercial experience, I have slightly less than 2 months. Certainly not enough to be very assertive.

    I started with 15 Nuc's this May 15th and have been scrambling ever since. Building covers, procuring hive bodies, etc.

    This on top of running my business and working 30 to 40 hours a week for the weed board.

    I have migratory 4 way pallets and have yet to convert them to screened bottom. (any ideas on how to do this?)

    All the equipment needed loads of work or built from scratch. Had to squeeze in putting together 300 frames with small cell foundation which required wiring and wax tube.

    Have I whined enough?? All that whining and I absolutly love beekeeping. I hope to be settled in with all equipment and screened bottoms in the next month.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    307

    Post

    Interesting discussion.

    Here in MN, we're struggling with what the governement bee inspection program should be and how it should be funded. The fee to register bees in MN hasn't changed in decades -- it's $10 no matter how many colonies. There was a move this year to change it to be a per-colony fee, and that seems to have hit a brick wall from the commercial beekeepers. There has to be a happy medium betwen a ridiculously low fee and a method that simply encourages people to lie about how many colonies they have.

    I would applaud an inspection program that was sufficiently funded to support knowledgable inspectors. As others have pointed out in this thread, there's a lot that the average beekeeper could learn. On the other hand, having someone with governement mandated authority inspect your bees when they are obviously inexperienced and untrained is an insult and worse than useless.

    As I write this, the Minnesota government is shut down because our politicians can't get it together. That is the reality. I would really like to see an useful bee inspection program, but as long as the politicians are in control, seems that the chances of that are remote.

    By the way, MN charges separately for inspections related to moving bees out of the state. That makes sense. I'd like to see more pay-for-services-rendered philosophy. I'd be willing to pay for an "inspection" is I thought that I could learn something in the process from the expert inspector.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    You made 842 posts, most of them presumably befroe you got the bees? You do love beekeeping. Sorry to berate you. If you don't solve, in some way, the mite thing you won't be keeping for long. The suggestion I have is to procure some hive sized ( a little less) white masonite (Tileboard) or something similar. Even white cardboard. Smear it with vaseline or lard, cover it with #8 hardware cloth and slide it in to the bottom of the hive. Count the # of mites that fall in 3 days and divide by 3. If this # gets close to 20 you are on yellow alert. Much more and the hive won't survive without treatment. (Some say 50) #s must be evaluated in the light of the size of the hive. Mite counts rise as the season goes on. Late Aug can see severe spikes just as the population decreases.

    When it's time to treat, there are a # of ways to do it. Have you read about Sucricide? Oxalic acid? Apistan still works for most but you won't get a recommend from me or most on this board. Better to use something proven in your first year though. When all the hives are deadouts in the spring...it's a sad sight.

    It's possible to put screened bottoms on pallets. I saw some in Fla last winter. No slideout trays though. You sound handy enough to figure that out. Personally until the #s go over 100 I'd opt for separate bottoms. I've made some out of 2x4s with a table saw, with the slides. Once you get a pattern, you just set the saw and keep pushing lumber through. 1 stud=1 bottom board. (+ a piece of 2x6 for a lander) husky enough to go without a hive stand. There was an article about it in one of the bee mags. I plan to do another. Is the author on this site? Anyone see it?

    Dickm

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Thanks Dick..... I researched and participated in this forum since last fall when I first started procuring equipment. Got the books and 2 bee journals. Book knowledge is great but this hands on is wonderful, and scary, always second guessing every move I make.

    I am going to start construction on screens for the 4 way pallets I have already. I already got a 100 ft. roll of 1/8" screen.

    I am using small cell foundation and will start fogging with FGMO and Thymol this week. No Apistan for me. I am interested in oxalic acid for fall treatment.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    You may be a little late to start FGMO. If you are going to do O/A it would be better if the hives were closed up to keep the vapor in for 20 mins. Consider Sucricide, it's a form of sugar not quite a chemical.

    Dickm

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    I will Dick....... I've read quite a bit about it. I like the 10 way wand that was in either the ABJ or BC journal.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,212

    Post

    >Does a sugar roll test kill the bees?

    No.

    >many people believe if its on the internet its so.

    And many belive if it's on the internet it's NOT so. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    >Nebraska charges .50 per hive yearly even of commercial beekeepers to support the inspection service. The inspection service took a friend to court and got the fees for his 1200 hives.


    Not anymore. There are no inspection requirements here in Nebraska anymore. You have to ASK them to inspect and then pay them 200 dollars, plus travel if its very far from Lincoln, even if it's only ONE hive.

    The inspector was very nice, very compenent and, although he was going to do an ether roll, was more than happy to do a sugar roll instead when I requested it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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