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Thread: PERMACOMB??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Santa Barbara, Calif. USA
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    135

    Angry

    Boy am I confused. I followed the complete thread on "Permacomb" and still don't know what it is , or where to get it. :confused:
    I want to get some frames for supers I am going to add to my new hive ( I am a beginner) and came across the word "permacomb" and wanted to check it out as a possible choice. A search of catalogs of the big suppiers like Dadant & Mann Lake gets no results. Even "ask jeeves" only gave a description no info on where to get it. Does it work?? I use medium size frames and have been using wire crimped wax foundation and don t want to work so hard, and want to consider plasic based frames, but the info on permacomb reads like a mystery story - what is going on?
    GABE

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Santa Barbara, Calif. USA
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    Post

    OK Thanks
    I read the "applicaton note " as meaning that you cannot mix permacomb with other type frames in a super for "bee acceptance" I am going to go back through the threads on this subject to see if I can get a solid recommendaton or rejection from a user. If I remember correctly, you (Michael) said you use it. The big suppliers don't carry it 1. becaause it is patented and they can't ? or 2. because it doesn't work?? It is still a mystery.
    GABE

  4. #4
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    Jun 2004
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    Post

    Ok - I found more info this time, sounds like,with only one hive and not much experience I better stick to the more commonly used stuff.
    GABE

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    If all you use is PermaComb it makes no difference. If you have PermaComb that has been used by the bees before, it makes no difference. If you put NEW PermaComb in a box with frames of bare wax foundation they will drawn the foundation before they will use the PermaComb. It won't be a disaster of any kind. They simply will prefer the wax to the plastic. This is true of plastic foundation, plastic frame/foundation (like Pierco) etc. The same rule applies anytime you use plastic foundation or comb.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    Post

    >if I can get a solid recommendaton or rejection from a user.

    I have 50+ colonys. >95% all PC, I'm still weeding out my last few deeps. I am ordering another thousand frames for this springs increase and supers for last years increase.

    Yeah, I kinda like it.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  7. #7
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    Aug 2002
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    Maybe, for you newbies, this will clarify. This applies to all the plastic. It's just like putting a piece of cherry pie and a bowl of broccili in front of your kids at the same time. If you want them to eat the broccoli, you should wait to put out the cherry pie.

    If you mix wax and plastic the bees will jump on the wax and ignore the plastic. If you put in all plastic they will use it when they need comb.

    There is no great impending disaster if you mix them. They just have their preferences and if you want them to follow YOUR preferences you should limit their choices.

    I wax dipped my PermaComb and mix it freely with everything. Wax, foudnationless, plastic, whatever, with no problems.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    Post

    Does anyone out there know how they spray wax on the plastic foundation?

    I spray all my PC with syrup and HBH, but have been thinking of dipping it in syrup for better coverage. However, if there is an easy way to spray wax on the PC, I would like to try that too.

    I have thought about using one of the old style air spray paint guns, setting the pot in hot water when it starts to clog, but don't know... :confused:
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    36

    Post

    Does spraying with syrup/HBH help them to accept it? I am thinking about starting new hives on foundationless and PC. Will this work if I spray the PC? I don't have any comb that isn't pretty saturated with apistan and other pesticides I have used over the years to try to "treat" my bees. I would like to make a clean start with a few hives to see how they do, so I would rather not use old comb. Again- will this work to blend PC and foundationless?

    thanks

    don
    don<br /><a href=\"http://www.spokaneclassifiedsonline.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.spokaneclassifiedsonline.com </a>

  10. #10
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    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio, USA
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    Post

    Hey Guys,
    Never heard of it, how is permacomb different than other plastic foundations?? Tell me more . Is it completly drawn plastic comb that the bees just dip their little tongues in and deposit their drop of golden honey ??? need info on it
    thanks
    Walt

  11. #11
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    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio, USA
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    Post

    hey, when the bees cap the comb , do you use a knife or what to remove cappings where to not hurt the plastic comb tell me more
    Walt

  12. #12
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
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    Post

    &lt;&lt;Is it completly drawn plastic comb &gt;&gt;

    Bingo. The link above is good, with pictures.

  13. #13
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    Aug 2002
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    If you space them 9 frames or less to a box they will be thick enough (usually) to just cut the cappings off with a cold knife without involving the plastic. If they don't draw it out (at the end of the flow etc) and they cap it below, then you will really need a Hackler Honey Punch to uncap them.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brunswick, Ohio, USA
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    185

    Post

    im getting a 3 lb package of bees im going to all mediums brood and supers , would you use the peracomb on this 3 lb package for the brood area after that during the honey flow maybe go to wax and wooden frames is this permacomb covered with wax i just have a hard time seeing a queen laying eggs in a cell of plastic. hey mike would you use it thanks
    Walt

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
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    Post

    Well, I'm not Mike, but from reading his past postings, he coats the Permacomb with wax at home. Since he does this, I would guess that Permacomb is not already wax coated.

    Pugs

  16. #16
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    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
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    See my post on the other forum. I guess people who don't have anything else do OK. I hate it. I forgot to mention it's impossible to space unless you install spacers. I even added screw to the endbars to space them, cut off the tabs and shortened the actual supers. Mikes right about the cherry pie/brocolli analogy. That's true with all plastic. Why then, not give them what they like?

    dickm

  17. #17
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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
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    dickm:

    plastic is convienant for the beekeeper! some bees like to draw on it, some do not. you just have to make it attractive for theem!
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    I space mine with the "molded" aluminum frame grip. I just bump the grip against the last frame. They are spaced a bit closer than typical 10 frame spacing, but it works fine and it's simple enough for me to do without putting in spacers.

    No, PermaComb is not wax coated. I heat mine to 200 degrees F in an oven and dip it and shake off the excess wax. It's a messy process but it works great. I end up with PermaComb that has no acceptance problems and the cell size is equivelant to about 4.95mm.

    What bees seem to like to draw the most, is their own comb without any foundation. I'm all for it. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
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    Post

    mb can you post a pic on your site of the "molded" frame grip [img]smile.gif[/img]
    NH Beekeeper

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Post

    Can someone who has some permacomb lying around
    take a tape measure and provide the exact dimensions
    of the following?

    1) Overall height, top of top bar to bottom of
    frame.

    2) Thickness of top bar

    3) Height of frame spacers at point where
    a frame rests on the spacer above rabbet
    (so I can work out the proper rabbet depth)
    If this is confusing, it would be the
    "bottom bump to top valley measurement".)

    The idea here is to look at cutting down
    mediums to accept these frames, so that bee
    space is still obeyed when supers of permacomb
    are deployed as honey supers.

    Deploying these things in standard mediums would
    mean "a mess" for extraction, as the bees are
    sure to draw comb below or above each frame, and
    this comb would be unsupported.

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