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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    South of Houston, near Galveston
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    I have my hive assembled. I noticed the inner cover has a recessed side and a flat side. My bee book says to put the flat side down. This doesnt appear to leave enough space for the bees to get on top of the frames. Is this how you all do it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Some have two recessed sides and some have only one. I put the recessed side down to create a bee space at the top.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    Do you use an inner cover with a hive top feeder? If you do, you put the deeper recessed side up so the bees can travel to one end from the center to get to the opening in the feeder? I have trouble feeding patties and using the top feeder at the same time. My top feeder is open at one end and my inner covers have recesses on both sides, one deep and the other shallow. I need the deeper recess of the inner cover down so as to have space for the pattie but that does not leave enough space on the top for the bees to get to the feeder. If I don't use one at all, then I don't have room for the pattie. Do I need to make a spacer ring (square)?
    Bill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    I'm not sure I understand what kind of feeder you are using. Most feeders on top that require some kind of space, I use an empty super on top to allow for the feeder.

    Also, I suppose I should mention, on the subject of inner covers, that some have a notch in them for a top entrance and for ventilation. You need to decide what you want to do with it. I would leave it open in the winter for more ventilation and so the bees can take cleansing flights when the bottom opening gets covered in snow.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    >I'm not sure I understand what kind of feeder you are using.

    I am using the type sold by Beecommerce and others that is the same dimention as the hive and about four inches deep. It has an opening on one end with screening wrapped over the edge for the bees to have a foothold and keep from drowning. It is flat on the bottom. I have also seen them with the opening to the hive in the middle, but mine are all on one end. They hold about two gallons of feed.

    >Most feeders on top that require some kind of space, I use an empty super on top to allow for the feeder.
    Also, I suppose I should mention, on the subject of inner covers, that some have a notch in them for a top entrance and for ventilation. You need to decide what you want to do with it. I would leave it open in the winter for more ventilation and so the bees can take cleansing flights when the bottom opening gets covered in snow.

    The only ones I have do not have any notches in them. I have read on some of these threads about them and thought about making some notches in mine, but am still unsure what you and clayton mean by a "V" notch and 3/4" drilled hole, etc. Anyway the ones I have are recessed about 1/8th inch on one side and maybe 5/8ths on the other side with an oval in the center for the bee escape. My problem is if I put the feeder directly on the hive body there is not enough space to put a pattie in between. If I put the recessed side of the inner cover down so as to make enough room for the pattie, there is not enough room above for a bee space for them to get to the syrup. What do other beekeepers do? Use an inner cover or not? Or make a spacer ring?

  6. #6
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    Oct 2002
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    Post

    Oops! Not 5/8ths... 3/8ths

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,437

    Big Grin

    > I am using the type sold by Beecommerce

    Well, there's your problem! You didn't use the ones from Beesource :> )

    The Miller feeder in the plans section has a bottom 3/8" bee space intigrated into the design. This still seems inadequate for a patty to fit, but it's equal to what your inner cover will provide. I'd simply make whatever size spacer you need for the patty to fit.

    -Barry

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    Ah! That's it. I should nail strips of 3/4 x 3/8 (1/2 might be better?) all around the bottoms of the feeders and not use an inner cover at all. That's the ticket! Thanks, Barry!
    Bill

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    I've been using the ones from Beecomerce with no inner cover and not had a problem with that. I also use round feeders that go on a hole in the inner cover that allow filling without greeting the bees. It only holds about 3/4 of a gallon though, but that's usually plenty. It requires an empty super or a vent box to give room for it. I get them from www.beeworks.com.

    There are a lot of ways to make an inner cover. When I make my own, I use a peice of scrap plywood cut to 19 7/8" x 16 1/4". When I make my frame rest on the hive boxes, I cut out a piece of the one by that is about 1/4" x 1/2". I reuse this scrap and make a spacer that I nail around the perimeter of one side of the plywood. I usually use a vent box on top of that, so I don't put a bee space on top of the inner cover. If you built a cover this way, the notch would simply be a gap in one end of the spacer. I cut it at an angle and put a toggle in, because with the vent box I have room for it to open, but if you have a notch and a telescpopic cover you can put the notch down and in the front and slide the telescopic cover forward and it leaves a space for the bees to fly in to the notch. The only down side, is you have to remember you have it open. I have put a bee escape on to clear a super and discovered that I forgot it. For a picture of the inner cover I build you can look here: http://www.beesource.com/eob/althive/bush/bush6.htm

    The commercial ones that have an entrance, just have a square notch where my toggle door is.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    Michael,
    Thanks for the pictures, that helps a lot.
    Bill

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
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    Post

    "Not enough space for bees on top of frames"

    Are you using supers from one manufacture and an inner cover from an another? Each maker seems to locate the frames in their supers (depth of rabbet) at a different depth. Some frames are flush w/ top of super, some frames are recessed 3/8", and some are somewhere in between. My frames are recessed 3/8" and works well w/ an inner cover turned "flat side down".

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    I believe the difference is that some are made for use with the metal frame rests and some are not.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Drums, PA, USA
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    331

    Post

    I agree with Mike. Some are made for frame rests. When I make mine, I make them flush, with no frame rest. The question on feeders, the plans on this board work out very well. I made a few of them. I ran 2 deeps last year, put the patty in between them, and the feeder on top. It worked out well.

    ------------------
    Dale Richards
    Dal-Col Apiaries
    Drums, PA

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    South of Houston, near Galveston
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    Post

    I e mailed the guy at bee-commerce and he said the flat side goes down. This leaves less than 1/8 inch of space. I bought another hive since then from Mann Lake and there is a 1/4 inch space plus their inner cover is recessed on both sides. The top bars on the frames from both companies are the same thickness. I guess I will be doing some experimenting this summer.
    I also built two hive top feeders but didnt allow for bee space on the bottom. I think I will add some shims to allow 3/8 inch space underneath.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
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    2,837

    Question

    The frame notch (rabbet) in the side of the super determines the amount of bee-space between frames from top to bottom.

    A 3/4" notch provides 3/8" above the frames.

    A 5/8" notch, gives you 1/4" above the frames, and 1/8" at the bottom.

    A 3/8" notch makes the frames flush with the top of the super, and puts 3/8" at the bottom.

    And other combinations are possible.

    With 1/4" above the frames, an inner cover needs 1/8" built into its rim (on "flat side") to provide a 3/8" bee-spaceabove the frames. If the cover in placed flat-side up, you get burr comb on top of frames because of the 5/8" space created.


    Metal frame rests (not spaces) require additional depth in the notch, so that after installing them, you have 5/8 or 3/4 from the top of the metal rest. If proper allowance has been make for the metal rest in brood supers, you can use other shallow supers without metal rest, if they both provide the same space above and below the frame.

    Be careful mixing equipment from different manufacturers.

    Dave W

    [This message has been edited by Dave W (edited January 20, 2003).]

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