Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

caging the queen?

9K views 65 replies 15 participants last post by  George Fergusson 
#1 ·
Hello All,

I just read a comment in another thread that got my attention and I thought it merited a seperate thread

Aspera wrote:

"Interruption of the brood cycle is SO obvious, I think that many people forget that it has nearly a 100% efficacy and that it is safe, and usually cost effective."

I've read comments about caging the queen to interupt the bee's brood cycle as a mite fighting method in other threads but I guess I don't quite understand the concept.
Obviously the life cycle of the mite is intimately related to the life cycle of the bee, but how could breaking the bee's brood cycle have a huge effect on the mites?
won't the phoretic mites just wait till you uncage the queen and go on with their dirty work?

I've never seen a detailed explaination of how this would work.
link to a research paper maybe??

Dave

[ October 27, 2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]
 
See less See more
#52 ·
>>Beside the push in type, anyone sell "framecages"? Failing that can anyone offer advice on what they do to construct a "frame cage"? Like do you respect bee space around the caged frame?

Good question Mark. I've never seen any for sale but maybe in some obscure esoteric beekeeping supply catalog they lurk, gathering dust..

So you're probably stuck with building your own. I don't see how you can maintain perfect bee space completely if you enclose a standard frame in cage built out of queen excluders- either between frames or on the ends, and top and bottom. I think you'd want to, as best you can but it's a temporary situation. At worst, you'll get some propolis build up. Perhaps a special frame, somewhat shorter and thinner would work.

>>Or construction details of end/ear holes, I think along the lines of galvanized sheet metal and cutting a metal excluder,soldering because that,s how I think,but the plastic would be cheaper...

I like the idea of sheet metal and metal excluders. Really, the concept here is confining the queen to a single frame. That might be a lot simpler to do with just two follower boards (excluders, one on either side of the frame). You might have to remove a frame (brood even, to bolster another hive or nuc) to make room.

>>Or ,IF a "2 frame cage" might offer an advantage,seeing that we're considering a 24day confinement?

I think you reach a point of diminishing returns. A queen confined to a 2 frame space within a hive isn't really "confined". It wouldn't be worth it IMHO unless the frames were all drone comb. She'd still be able to lay and the bees (about 8000 of `em) would raise the brood. The goal is for the hive to be broodless for a while so the house bees are recruited for foraging.... unless all you're interested in is trapping varroa, then I'd just put 2 frames of drone comb in the hive and forget the cage.

The idea of confining her to a whole frame has merit as I see it only if it's a frame of drone comb. Then most (not all) of your house bees are recruited for foraging and when the drone brood is capped, you can yank it along with all the mites.

I'll be pondering this frame cage "problem" and will share what I come up with.

George-
 
#53 ·
>>MB: "You would lose all of the young brood, nurse bees and house bees and get back all of the old field bees. How is this a benefit?"

>Since there is no brood tere won't be any young bees or nurse bees to lose. The nurse bees and most of the house bees have long since been recruited as foragers

If there is a flow, most of them, but not all of them probably would.

>(just like a cutdown split). I also said you could treat the bees.

Which seems a more useful thing.

>The benefit of dumping a mile (btw, this is an arbitrary distance) away is that you lose any sick bees and possibily lose the varroa mites on the bees and certainly lose all of the mites still in the hive.

Well, I haven't tried it with a hive that has had the queen confined for the last 28 days, but I would still expect some of them to be house bees and attendants to the queen and those will still be the youngest and those will still be lost. Even if there are a lot less of them.

>>MB: "It's an idea I like, but certainly no my idea. It was used by many beekeepers for about a century or more."

>I meant only in the context of this thread. I like Bush's idea of tax cuts to stimulate the economy, but he didn't invent it.

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not being credited with something that is not mine, although I like the idea.

>Well, my goal is to eliminate 99.9% of the varroa mites. I don't think a traditional cutdown split can achieve this.

Nor do I. But it will make less mites and it will make more honey.

> I would expect 99% of all bees to return to their old location.

Maybe they will. Let me know how it works.
 
#58 ·
Hi George, I was just scrolling through some of the messages and came across this. I know Dave doesn't need a mouthpiece, but since I've got a reference handy:

"Female mites can go through more than one reproductive cycle. As many as seven cycles, producing up to 30 eggs, have been demonstrated by artificially transferring mites........[researchers] found that 13 percent of introduced mother mites reproduced at least three times."

page 288, 'Honey Bee Pests, Predators, & Diseases'
 
#59 ·
Woof. Thanks Dick, good info. And Dave, I wasn't doubting you, I'm just trying to build up references so I can accumulate facts, as opposed to opinions. Some unsubstantiated statements go down easily, others need corroboration.

Oh my god, I've been reading BEE-L too long. I'm morphing!!! It's affected my brain!!!

George-
 
#62 ·
>>This info is "everywhere".

I wouldn't call it "everywhere" but when you're specifically looking for it, you can find it. I did, eventually.

FYI, my general rule of thumb is not to take anything as fact if I can't verify it from 2 other sources. I might not discount it totally.. but there's so much mis-information "out there" it just makes sense to verify what you can before you rely on it.

Dickm, thanks for that site. I used to play Quake on that server..

George-
 
#63 ·
So it appears that varroa DO prefer nurse bees as hosts for their phoretic episode- not exclusively, but there seems to be a distinct preference for them.

One reason could be convenience- they're more likely to encounter nurse bees when emerging from a cell. Another reason could be the mites just don't like going for rides on the backs of foragers.

Caging the queen and forcing all your nurse/house bees to grow up and go forage could be another reason this management technique has an impact on the mite population- more mites get lost.

George-
 
#64 ·
Sounds like an awful lot of trouble for the average hive minder like me.
(all the digital stuff in my house flashes 12:00):lol:
I think I'll stick to rotating my drone frames through the freezer.
I like the fact that drone population can be
manipulated a bit without much damage/interference
to the "natural" cycles in the hive.
 
#65 ·
George Fergusson . . .

>FYI, my general rule of thumb is not to take anything as fact if I can't verify it from 2 other sources.

You are VERY wise!!!

I think PART of what you said is BEST, "not to take anything as fact if I (you) can't verify". If YOU personally can't verify, what would stop 2 "mis-informed" souls from leading you down the wrong path?

The more you try to verify (about beekeeping), the less you'll know for sure
 
#66 ·
>>I think PART of what you said is BEST, "not to take anything as fact if I (you) can't verify". If YOU personally can't verify, what would stop 2 "mis-informed" souls from leading you down the wrong path?

Good question Dave. My father taught me this principle of research and it went something like "Don't accept as fact anything you haven't independently verified from 2 other reputable sources."

So I guess the operative terms are "independently verified" and "reputable sources". It's not fool proof, but if you add the straight-faced test and use some plain old common sense, you won't go too far wrong. Always reserve the right to change your mind!

It also helps to be able to distinguish between fact and opinion. No amount of verification is going to turn someone's opinion into fact. You can agree with it or accept it, or not. That seems to apply to beekeeping particularly well
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top