Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New Castle, VA USA
    Posts
    90

    Post

    Just recently I contacted a family member of an old man that had bees. I was informed that I was welcome to have a bunch of old hives and supers to keep them from rotting because the old fellow was now in a home (Alzhiemers). Only catch was, seeing as how the new caretaker of the place is allergic to bees , I'll have to work the one remaining hive of bees. No problem, they were pretty agressive, but they yielded quite a bit of honey. I began gathering the remaining equipment and was puzzled by the amount of eight frame equipment. A lot of my granfathers stuff, that I started out with, was eight frame too. Why did the old timers use this stuff. Lighter maybe? I noticed a lot of deeps. Anyhow I'm looking forward to when I can catch a swarm of these bees because they appear to have been doing their own thing for several years. Anyone know how to attach foundation to a one pound honey box,A.K.A "Killion super"? I've got a bunch of them.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Neodesha, Ks
    Posts
    623

    Post

    Hi Andy, I recently had some 8 frome hive bodys given to me by a BeeKeeper friend. I think that they used to be used during the transision period to the Langstroth hive. Anyway you can use the Frames in the Langstroth hive and you can make new ends for the 8 frame boxes and make them into the 10 frame boxes. Give this some thought, if you are just starting out you should try to standardize on one type of equipment. Makes things much easier later. These are just my thoughts and I am sure others will give theirs. Dale in S.E. Ks

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    8 frame equipment was thought to crowd the bees better in those days as much honey was made in sections. For all the info you ask you really need to get the book, Honey In The Comb by Killion. Should explain all you have asked and then some.

    Clay

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    I think it's more important to standardize frames than boxes. 8 frame boxes are handy for catching swarms and starting hives. The supers are much lighter and even if they were the same weight, they are easier to get under because the last two frames would be the furthest away from your body. So an 8 frame box that weighs the same as a 10 frame box is easier to handle.

    Eight frames equipment was once popular. It IS Lanstroth equipment. Same frames etc. just holds eight frames. Brushy Mt. sells them and I have some around for swarms and nucs. 8 medium frames is about the equivilant to 5 deep frames, so it's a nice size for a split.

    I am running a couple of hives in 8 frame boxes to see how they do. I like the weight of them a lot.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    MB Do you have any dadant hives or modified dadant hives? How do you like them vs. lang hives if you have them?

    Clay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,898

    Post

    I'm OD not MB, but I'll chime in anyway. I have had up to twelve square MD depth twelve frame hives for twenty-five years styled after Brother Adam's hives. The deeper frame is harder to work but the larger size makes for huge populations of bees, therefore huge crops, and is big enough to winter as a single brood chamber. You don't want to have to move the hives by yourself, or extract the deep frames. The square medium supers are heavy too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Neodesha, Ks
    Posts
    623

    Post

    I stand CORRECTED.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    >MB Do you have any dadant hives or modified dadant hives? How do you like them vs. lang hives if you have them?

    I have just started a hive of Dadant Deep frames. I used Dadant plastic foundation with split pins to hold it in and the 2" gap at the bottom arrange in Housel positioning. Except the center frame which I did with two pieces turned 90 degrees and cut for size with the bar of the "Y" to the right.

    It's in a five frame nuc right now but I will eventually move it to a double wide hive (32 1/2") on a triple wide bottom board (48 3/4"). That will give me room to stack supers behind it (on the bottom board) and on top of the back half of it. My thought is to run a horizontal hive and that that a horizontal hive would be better if it was deeper, since it's all on one level. Since it's a double wide I can use standard wood bound excluders on it if I want to put supers on top. But with a super on the back half I could get to the brood in the front half.

    I can't say how I like it yet since I haven't got it established, but I did something similar with regular Deeps and I liked it a lot.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    Maybe your real question is about 12 frame boxes. I have built and run a two queen hive in two 12 frame deeps (9 5/8") with a 1/4" divider down the middle and a sqaure queen excluder on top (this was 30 years ago and they were still available then). I ran the frames in the brood area at right angles to the entrance and the first super at right angles to the brood chambers, thinking they would communicate between the boxes better. After the 12 frame super, I just put on regular supers and a board to cover the crack on the first one. This hive boomed like crazy. I was a newbie and frankly it was so strong I was terrified of it.

    The two queen hive was a great success except I decided it was less work and just as productive to run two one queen hives.

    The twelve frame boxes were too hard to lift, so I gave up on them.

    I have not run Dadant Deep frames in a 12 frame box, but I think it could work nicely for a one box brood chamber. Being basically of the "unlimited brood nest" philosophy myself, though, the double wide (22 frames in an 11 5/8" box) seemed like a practical unlimited brood nest that I wouldn't ever have to lift.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    MB and OD,

    Thanks for replies. I was specifically thinking about the Jumbo Dadant hives. The Modified 11 and 12 frame ones that Brother Adam used. I am wondering one 12 frame Dadant = what in equivelant of lang hive?

    Also anyone know the 12 frame type hive that Farrar used?

    Clay

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    I figure the only area of concern is actual comb surface.

    Figuring a comb size of 8 1/8" x 16 3/4" for the comb size of a standard deep that is 132 square inches. And there are two sides to each comb A Dadant deep is 10 1/8" x 16 3/4" which is 164 square inches per side.

    So one deep box has 20 sides (10 frames with two sides) of 132 square inches per side for a total comb surface of 2640 square inches.

    A Dadant Deep with 24 sides (12 frames with two sides each) of 164 Square inches per side is 3936 sqare inches which is 1 1/2 times as much as one deep box.

    So a 12 frame Dadant deep box is the equivelant of 1 1/2 standard 10 frame deep boxes.

    I think the unbroken areas for the queen to lay in tend to make up some for having a bit less room than two deeps.

    My double wide is 22 frames times two sides times 164 square inches for a total of 7216 which is same are as 2 3/4 deep boxes. Almost the size of a three deep, unlimited brood nest. With a little planed off the edges of the end bars to make them 1 1/4" on center there would be 24 frames which would be 7872 sqare inches which is the same as 3 deep boxes.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Castle Rock, Colorado
    Posts
    42

    Post

    This thread forced me to think. I've only kept bees for four years. I bought all my equipment from Dadant. Are Dadant hives and supers a different size than standard or other major suppliers?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    Acually, Dadant doesn't sell Dadant deep hives. Mr. Dadant (the founder of the company) was trying to come up with the ideal size frame and box for a brood chamber and arrived at 12 frames in a sqare box that was 11 5/8" deep. A standard deep is 9 5/8" deep. A medium (or Illinois or western) is 6 5/8" deep. A shallow is about 5 11/16" deep. So a "Dadant Deep" or a "Dadant extra deep" is an 11 5/8" box with frames that are 2" deeper than a standard deep.

    Part of the theory is that a queen lays in concentric circles and the larger the circle is the less she gets interrupted in her laying by having to cross a gap to another comb. Also, the cluster tends to be a canteary (sp?) so you get a larger more managable space for the bees to heat and take care of when they cluster to warm the brood. Also, since the bees tend to make a round cluster in the winter the box that is the same in both dimensions will accomadate this better.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New Castle, VA USA
    Posts
    90

    Post

    Thanks for the input, folks. According to popular opinion, what would I be better off to do? Learn how to use cut comb eq.? Or, nail strips on the bottom of the Killion supers to make them accept shallow frames?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Post

    It depends on what you want to raise. I would imagine there is a market for sections. Walter T. Kelly still sells section boxes and probably some others do to.

    I've never tried sections.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads