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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Florida
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    8

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    PETA, Vegans, Vegetarians, Green Peace, Soccer Moms, NAACP, blah, blah, blah... How bored does one have to be with their life before taking up the self proclaimed sword of righteousness and applying a label to ones self or joining a "group" of labels for the sole purpose of announcing ones self to the world as a better being???

    Ignorance + group or label (does not) = enlightened wisdom

    However... Ignorance + group or label (usually does) = "collective ignorance"

    The gene pool needs a new life guard.. Where do I apply for that position?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Stronghurst,Illinois
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    168

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    H$U$ is just as bad or even worse then PETA . They have now combined with Friends For Animals so they can do an unlimited lobbying effort .

    They also don't operate even 1 animal shelter nor do they even have a spay and nuter program . Sounds like a scam to me .

    Drifter
    Some can learn by others mistakes , others have to whizz on the electric fence for themslves .

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hookstown PA USA
    Posts
    581

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    Bjorn: sounds like you are a Christian first and everything else you mentioned second. That is as it should be.

  4. #24
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

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    I find the vast majority of membership to these groups are people who have an unhappy life. They are unhappy to begin with and hope that belonging to such a group will make them happy, passiante human beings with a reason to live. As far as the founders go, what better way to insure themselves an income. They are losers who failed to find a place in life that suits their idea of success, and hence make themselves the poster people of abused animals so they can profit handsomely from the donations to their cause. They are nothing more than leaches, and have no morals or cares for the species they pretend to care so much about. Anyone remember the PETA presidents comments when hoof and mouth broke out in Europe? "We should smuggle the virus here to aid in shutting down factory farms." Does that sound like someone concerned with animal welfare? Not exactly. Just my two cents worth.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    4

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    Wow! My friends and I are really being painted with a broad brush. I am a vegetarian, and have been for over 15 years. I have raised my children veg at home, although they are free to choose outside of the home. I have many vegan friends who have chosen that path for health reasons after suffering physical problems that were alieviated by eliminating animal products from their diet. It works for them. I’m not willing to give up cheese and ice cream – that’s what works for me. I do inform people if I ‘m invited to dinner to avoid an uncomfortable situation for both the host & myself. Imagine slaving over a nice meat entrée – and the cost involved- and then your gursts don’t eat it :~(

    I agree with what BjornBee said about radicals/extremists. I appreciate the passion of radicals and realize that, without them, general society would not get to, in my view, a more moderate stance (think civil rights, DDT use, worker safety, recycling). That said, radicals are hard to take in day to day life. I obviously disagree with the radical vegan stance against honey, but it’s a small population that doesn’t really have an impact on my decisions. I love my bees and I love what they provide.
    ps - I'm a pretty happy person, and belong to many activist organizations. Moderates are the norm :~)

    In Peace,
    Cheryl
    In Peace,<br />Cheryl Westra

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Hiram, Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    731

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    "I find the vast majority of membership to these groups are people who have an unhappy life."

    How would you know that without being a member of these groups. You are just packaging up stereotypes and beating straw men. Most of these characterizations just show that you have no real experience with the people you are talking about, but have developed your opinons second hand. People with real experience do not talk in such broad ways.

    Are there angry environmentalists? Yes. Just like their are angry businessmen and angry loggers and angry handicapped people and angry auto workers and what have you. How about members of anti-abortion groups, are they all sad people who hate their lives and so have to get their worth from mindlessly agitating? Maybe you should consider that some people just have closely held beliefs that they wish to see advanced for what they believe to be the betterment of the world. That's not just anger or nihilism...often quite the opposite--even if it may often seem misguided to you or to me--even if it ocassionally drifts from enpassioned advocacy to simple insanity.

    If I had ever met an actual member of PETA, I might have something to say about it, but the fact is that this group is so inconsequential that you will hear fifty disapproving references to it for every member you ever meet.
    It\'s people! Soylent Green is peeeeople!

  7. #27
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    Mar 2005
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    Troupsburg, NY
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    Auctally I have had vast experiance with people. Most are unhappy with their life and do pick up a torch to carry thinking it will make them happy. I don't mistate that statement. It would amaze you as to the number of unhappy people in the world. They have never been able to figure out what happiness is, and how to obtain it. PETA gives them a distraction, and lets them think they are happy. (I was married to one for six years and know what I'm talking about). Pull your head out of the sand and listen to those around you, it might surprize you.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corralitos, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,247

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    Well, I have to agree on the whole with Cwestra and Darrel Wright. I would say Americans, esp. the christian right, I'm being guilty of generalizing here of course, seem to be so suspicious, fearful and hostile towards anyone with different outlooks on the world. I thought your messiah preached the Golden Rule, which as I remember goes, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Unfortunately in this world the chickens do come home to roost and many of our problems with other nations stem from their feeling that they are returning the 'favors' we have done them over the past 4 or 5 decades.

    It is Americans who tend to have their heads in the sand and so they have no idea about the feelings of people from other nations. We may be the most powerful and rich nation of the world, but we are only a modest fraction of the world at best. As to whether "vegetarians are poor hunters," although they were not hunting societies per se, the great vegetarian (Hindu) kingdoms/empires of India had large armies with much better weaponry and trained soldiers and beautiful cities when Europeans, which is my ethnic background, were living in hovels.

    In any case, cwestra, in Santa Cruz County, CA, you invariably serve both standard and vegetarian cuisine without bothering to enquire if you're having any number of people over for dinner, otherwise you'd be guaranteed to have several people go hungry. I'd be vegetarian if I didn't enjoy meat so much. Actually, in India, where I have been, the vegetarian food can be so good you don't even miss meat.

  9. #29
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    As a whole I have no problem with people who are vegetarian, or even vegens. I don't have a problem with anyone that walks, talks or breathes. Until they try to force their ideas down my throat. I don't care for PETA, not because of their ideas, but because of the way they choose to express them. What good does it do to raid a fur farm and turn loose hundreds of mink who have no idea how to live in the wild? What kind of people would entertain the thought of infecting the countrie's beef herd with hoof and mouth disease because they don't like people eating beef? They have the same mentalty of gangs, who band together because they are looking for something that isn't found at home. They are unhappy and looking for happiness. You can tell me I'm beating strawmen and sterotyping all you want and it still won't convience me that the statement I made isn't true. PETA only wants attention, that's what brings in the donations, and lines their pockets. PETA parallels ENRON: you saw how much ENRON thought of it's customers.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  10. #30
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corralitos, CA, USA
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    1,247

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    Hard to disagree about PETA. Their tactics are worse than stupid. I'm not a big fan of wearing fur, although it is concerns me mainly in terms of endangered or threatened species. Nowadays, though, farming animals for fur probably does decrease pressure on animals living in the wild (at times in the past farming animals that could be readily shot or trapped has only increased pressure on wild animals).

    Regardless, releasing minks at mink farms is cruelty to animals and harmful to the natural environment. Certainly it is cruel to the farmed minks, whose survival skills are negligible. It is also cruel to whatever animal the minks encounter which they may manage to eat before some larger wild predator finishes the mink off.

    Obviously the economic damage to the mink farmer is of no concern to PETA. If a movement like PETA is really opposed to something like wearing fur, it is far more effective to educate the consumer than to victimize the small business persons involved. No one in their right mind can sympathize with ruining someone's livelihood so perversely as PETA has done to mink farmers they've attacked.

  11. #31
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    3,361

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    Darrel, If you think Peta and other similar animals rights groups are "inconsequential" you are gravely mistaken. Although as a populous we may find many more people outside their train of thought than in, you and I my friend are not what gets it done. These folks have very well supported and targeted lobbying efforts which have and will continue to effect all of us step by step as their efforts will continue to increase the protection of animals and erode the protection of humans. I have aquaintences who are members in such organizations and the most common element I hear is "I like animals more than people". (That thinking concerns me) I think most people agree with the concept of animal welfare, no-one likes to see any animal abused or misused. These folks are working hard on animal "rights". These organizations effect farmers, animal control organizations, pet owners, everyone. They are far from inconsequential. Just because it hasn't yet bit you in the rear quarters doesn't mean people aren't being affected in major ways. One does not have to be a member of an extreme group to understand what their purpose is, one just needs to read and comprehend.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rochester, Washington, USA
    Posts
    973

    Sad

    Just Rambling We (my wife and I) have a close personal friend who rescues injured raptors (works for the Federal gov) and his home has been targeted by PETA, and PAWS. Alot of the birds he rescues can't be released into the wilds because of various health problems. PETA/PAWS has slashed his tires issued threats towards him and his family even went so far as to put out a "contract" on him.
    They say he is "exploiting" the birds, in fact the birds that can't be released are used for public education of raptors, and are given the best medical attention and food that they would never see in the wild they want for nothing.
    But PETA/PAWS can't understand that these birds could not (the severely injured) ever be expected to survive in the wild.
    The groups resort to terrorist style methods, fire bombing, shooting at people, slashing tires just to name a few, in order to get their point across.
    Real big people that have to do things in the dark, hidden. With no regard to property or human life.
    And yet I still pray for them.
    \"ONLY WHEN THE LAST RIVER HAS BEEN DRIED UP<br />THE LAST TREE BEEN CUT DOWN<br />THE LAST WILD FISH CAUGHT<br />WILL MAN REALIZE YOU CAN\'T EAT MONEY\"<br />GHANDI (?)

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Stronghurst,Illinois
    Posts
    168

    Post

    Several good points have been made already . Some are still thinking in a Disneyfied sense though .I have met several of the Animal Rights folks . Usually upper middle class with too much time on their hands far removed from the land ( Read this as live in the concrete jungle )

    I am a trapper as well as a beekeeper . I go to conventions every summer and sometimes they protest outside the gates . We have had them come inside to try to disrupt the convention as well .

    A true trapper knows the carrying capacity of the land he traps and NEVER overharvests it . Kind of like know your bees and don't over rob them . Too many animals for the carrying capacity and mother nature thins them with parvo ,dystemper,mange and rabies .

    The big boys at PETA and Humane Socitey of the U S are in it for the money not the animals . Sensationalism and a non profit status brings that to them . H$U$ brought in $134 million last year and do not run one single shelter .

    Drifter
    Some can learn by others mistakes , others have to whizz on the electric fence for themslves .

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