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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    Rochester, Washington, USA
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    973

    Thumbs down

    http://tinyurl.com/b3r34 or http://tinyurl.com/afsxr
    Leave it to the chemical companies. :mad:
    \"ONLY WHEN THE LAST RIVER HAS BEEN DRIED UP<br />THE LAST TREE BEEN CUT DOWN<br />THE LAST WILD FISH CAUGHT<br />WILL MAN REALIZE YOU CAN\'T EAT MONEY\"<br />GHANDI (?)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    oneonta al.
    Posts
    848

    Post

    That's not a shock to me.&lt;Money,Money,Money&gt;,
    We all have seen it in almost ever thing in life.
    But it's still sad.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Post

    Two points I found interesting.

    One is that its usually not the chemicals that kill bees. Its the application and misuse. Something noted in the story. I wholeheartedly agree.

    The other is the association given to "same type chemicals" in attacking the chemical companies. They do not say that the noted companies were at fault for the hive kill, just "same type chemicals" as these companies produce. Guilty by association or stigma perhaps.

    If you read the story twice, once from the one side, and once from the other, then you can read between the lines for different outcomes. I distrust the slanted media, who "never let the facts get in the way of a good story" angle everything. Its not a driver that kills someone, its an SUV. Its not a person who kills someone, its a Semi-automatic. Its not a farmer who misused or poisioned a beehive, its the chemical companies. And so it goes.

    "Sheep are bad enough. Blind sheep are much worse".

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    If you think that's bad check this out http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

    Enslaving bees, imagine!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Green Lane, PA
    Posts
    839

    Post

    I never understood vegetarians much less vegans. Isn't a large brain associated with meat eaters? What if our predessors only ate vegetables,would we have become what we are now?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rochester, Washington, USA
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    973

    Post

    A vegetarian to the (american) Indian is a poor hunter.
    \"ONLY WHEN THE LAST RIVER HAS BEEN DRIED UP<br />THE LAST TREE BEEN CUT DOWN<br />THE LAST WILD FISH CAUGHT<br />WILL MAN REALIZE YOU CAN\'T EAT MONEY\"<br />GHANDI (?)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,401

    Post

    The "vegetus" page is not a "vegetarian's view",
    this is a very radical vegan stance, the sort of
    view that is most often packaged with militant
    lesbian feminism and/or violence against even
    those who wear fake fur (because even fake fur is
    bad for animals, as it perpetuates the view that
    fur is "fashionable"). While I agree that fur
    simply isn't fashionable except among lower-middle
    class lottery winners, very few people pay any
    attention at all to vegans, as they all look
    pale, ill, and emaciated all the time.

    As for the British Beekeeping Association, it
    seems strange that the leadership would take
    such a step without a full vote of the membership.

    One simply does not elect "officers" to posts in
    an organization so that they can take actions
    that "betray" some larger fraction of the
    membership's strongly-held views.

    Engaging in dialog and working towards common
    understanding is one thing, but accepting trivial
    donations and gifts in return for an "endorsement"
    smells far too much like a "sell-out".

    Expect a "recall election" in 5... 4... 3...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pikeville North Carolina
    Posts
    397

    Post

    Some people have way too much time on thier hands. Bees are slaves what a dumb ***..
    An empty wagon rattles the loudest.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Jim, They did vote and 30 out of 43 local associations approved. I wonder if any vote on any idea in the beekeeping industry here, would approach that number/%.

    This story is spattered with key words for making sensationalism.
    Using the word "multinational" in describing the chemical companies is an example. "Secret deals" for news headlines. "Backroom decisions". I have seen many stories of this nature and they are usually half of the truth, or so one sided as to make the story better than what it is.

    Papers in Europe and (UK included) are very liberal in nature. These are the same papers that called 56 million people "stupid" the day after the election because the bias media.

    I see no harm in a working cooperation between the beekeeping industry and chemical companies. And it does seem that the money is going for beekeeping interests including education. Not one time did the story mention that anyone was getting kick-backs or in any way benefiting from the money, other than the beekeeping industry. It actually did not even mention anything from the chemical companies gain other than an endorsement. Not sure even what the value of that is.

    Although a working relationship is a positive thing in my mind, I could only imagine all the different opinions this forum would show, regardless of the cooperation and benefit. Big business no. Chemical companies no. Goverment involvement no. And for some thats thier choice. I could list many positives that could come out of money given for research, money given for marketing, money given for education, money for beekeeping industry benefits. Farming pesticide application instruction. But I know that for some, no matter what the deal would be...not with a chemical company.

    As for "trivial" sellout, what exactly is the gain for the chemical industry. Some "beekeeping friendly" endorsement. I do not think the benefit from this very small slice of society that call themselves beekeepers will amount to hundreds of million of dollars in some endorsement that will reap returns in the billions. "Marketing" many times is perception of reality, just from another angle. Easily obtained from other efforts. The fact they are working with the beekeepers in some way could be positive. If the effort is for chemical companies, oh wait..."multinational chemical companies" (much better read), is for underhanded or some evil doing, I am sure the bee industry can back-track, hopefully influence, or correct something in the future. Including pulling thier endorsement. Pulling a gained endorsement is a a loss, and something that would be a media frenzy. And something I am sure they would not want.

    Keeping your enemies close, is sometimes a good tactic. Alienating your industry from those who could help you is not always good. Partnerships usually have demands given by both sides. I hope the beekeeping industry (in the UK) is gaining valuable insight, and influence within the chemical companies. It can help.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Post

    &gt; Jim, They did vote and 30 out of 43 local
    &gt; associations approved.

    Then it was not a "secret deal" at all, it was a
    consensus of the members.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Alpine, NY (near Cayuga Lake)
    Posts
    107

    Post

    ... with militant
    lesbian feminism ...
    Is that like... 50,000 females living together, and keeping the males alive just in case someone needs to breed?
    Lesli<br /> <a href=\"http://beeyard.blogspot.com/\" target=\"_blank\">http://beeyard.blogspot.com/</a>

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    Post

    &gt; Is that like... 50,000 females living together,
    &gt; and keeping the males alive just in case someone
    &gt; needs to breed?

    You mean that the above is not exactly how
    society currently runs? [img]smile.gif[/img]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Auburn and Tri-Cities Washington
    Posts
    334

    Post

    PetSmart and PetCo have similar "deals with the devil." The devil I speak of here is PETA or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The difference is that PetCo and PetSmart donate money to PETA so they can turn around and pursue their agenda of making pet ownership illegal. Go figure. At least the beekeeping community is getting something for this. I’m sure the pesticide companies still would have released there pesticide products with or without the support of the beekeepers. If ya can't beat 'em join 'em. Right???

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    9,123

    Post

    Here is what I posted on the vegan bee slave site.......


    I am a slavemaster........ I raise bees, and also enslave apple trees. I shamelessly limit the way the apple trees grow (pruning), and only allow them a few acres.

    I also enslave strawberries, raspberries, and countless vegatables.

    Forgive me.............

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corralitos, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,247

    Post

    I am not a vegetarian, just finished a pepperoni pizza and had lamb chops last night and steak the night before. However, vegetarianism, speaking as an MD, is generally very healthy when well thought out -not usually well thought out by your teen or young twenty-something though. Veganism is also generally healthy, if awfully extreme and if you've ever had vegan friends you begin to realize it is almost impossible to invite them to dinners that average vegetarians would enjoy. PETA and militant Vegans, though, are just full of hooey. Keeping bees is a wonderful way to connect with nature and harvesting honey only deepens the experience. I feel sorry for them.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Post

    90% of vegetarians are no more than "look at me" people. Very few actually are fully committed to being a vegetarian. Most enjoy going to a party or social dinner and somehow work the mentioning of the vegetarian lifestyle they have choosen into the conversation. "Oh, I'll have to pass on the baby-back ribs", and after mentioning the "I'm a vegetarian", the conversation will usually center aroung them for some period of time. It makes them standout, and has them talking about themselves. Most people cry out in some manner for attention and this fits the bill for some. Its something alot of people ask about curiously, its something that is not generally frowned about, it give the speaker a "I'm doing something good for me".

    The militant vegan is the same, just a little more screwed in the head.

    I can join a conservation group and yet not burn down new developers. I can join a hunting club, and yet believe that 50 cal guns are not a good thing. I can join a humane society without throwing paint on a fur wearer. I can be a republican and still believe that my nieghbor needs to deal with abortion on her own terms. I can be a Christian without condemning all other religions of the world. I can have gay friends and except them as they are, but believe 30 year old men do not need to be sleeping alongside boyscouts on campouts. Unfortunately any group can have extreme elements and members who carry things way too far. They take a passion or concept, disregard common sense, and end up ruining the end result.

  17. #17
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    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    9,123

    Post

    Chief......... Do you have any documentation that PetCo and PetSmart to PETA?? A reliable web link??

    A past salesman of mine had a sweatshirt that read....

    PETA..... People for Eating Tasty Animals

    I was a vegitarian for a couple of years back in 1974 and 1974. There are valid reasons to do so. Number 1 is health, number 2 is that meat consumption feeds fewer people that the plant protein the animals consume (about a 2 to 1 ratio).

    That said, I did not have the willpower to stay away from a good burger and steak.

    BjornBee......... Your last paragraph hits the mark.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Alpharetta, GA, USA
    Posts
    520

    Post

    Hey! what's wrong with grown men sleeping alongside boyscouts on campouts? If we fathers don't take the boys (and girls) camping, who will? (I'm a little off topic, i know)

    But yes, Bjorn, your previous post is right on about many (but not all) vegitarians.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
    Posts
    3,030

    Post

    Amen Bjorn on both comments. Better be careful though, absolutism and extremism are becoming the new patriotism. If you're not part of the mob, they might be at your door next! Better find someone to hate quick, and get a bumper sticker to prove it just to be safe .
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Auburn and Tri-Cities Washington
    Posts
    334

    Post

    Sundance, it’s a good thing you called me out on the presumed donations by PetSmart and PetCo to PETA. I was wrong. I looked up the articles I had read (some time ago) and relized that the donations were to HSUS which stands for the Humane Society of the United States. This may make a little more sense to all of us. However the articles I read show that both organizations have similar agendas when it comes to the eventual banning of pet ownership. I doubt it will ever happen but if it did I’m sure bees would be included. Here are the addresses to the links so you can make up your own minds.
    http://www.arbreptiles.com/extremists.shtml
    http://www.arbreptiles.com/extremists2.shtml

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