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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    38

    Post

    Have any of you used the ready made comb packing systems like the ones at www.beeosphere.com ?

    If so, how do you like it? Any comments?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Carnation, WA, USA
    Posts
    120

    Post

    Hi!

    Check out the Equipment/Hardware Review forum. There's a current thread of discussion about the Bee-o-Pac's there with about 58 replies. Quite a few members are experimenting with the Bee-o-Pac's.

    Mark

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    anaheim california USA
    Posts
    23

    Wink

    Beeminer, how did you get your name.The reason im asking is that I gold mine, & also keep bees. Just curious......

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Carnation, WA, USA
    Posts
    120

    Post

    Hi, carnica bee!

    I used to do a little hobby prospecting in some of the rivers of the Cascades using a small 4' dredge. When I started beekeeping, getting into the hives to see if the bees made any of that "liquid gold" reminded me of the feeling I got while prospecting. I thought to myself, "Hey, I'm a bee miner!"

    Mark

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Carnation, WA, USA
    Posts
    120

    Post

    davlanders,

    Did you locate the Bee-o-sphere thread? Just in case you didn't, here's a link to it - http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000259.html

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    38

    Post

    I found it; thanks so much.

    Does the square cassette system sold by Dadant basically do the same thing as this?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,797

    Post

    It is a similar concept in some respects and not in others.

    Essential concepts of Bee-O-Sphere:

    Works in a standars sized, unmodified super.

    Is a 4 oz package when done.

    The bees build the comb in the package.

    It's a half comb meaning the back of the package is the "midrib" of the comb.

    The package is the thin clamshell kind of plastic material so it takes very little plastic to make the container.

    The Dadant is basically a Hogg Half Comb system and it had the following characteristics:

    Requires a special modified super. Not a standard depth and has other hardware in it.

    Is an 8 oz package when done.

    The bees build the comb in the package.

    It's a half comb meaning the back of the package is the "midrib" of the comb.

    The package is the heavy plastic material so it takes more plastic to make the container.

    To contrast these let's also look at a Ross round:

    Requires a special modified super. Not a standard depth and has other hardware in it.

    Is an 8 oz package when done.

    The bees build the comb in the package.

    It's a FULL comb meaning the "midrib" of the comb is in the center of the box. You can cut the comb out of the box and put it on a plate.

    The package is the heavy plastic material so it takes more plastic to make the container.

    Since it is round there is no problems getting the bees to fill in the corners.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    38

    Post

    Wow, that was a great comparison. I just bought a ross round super and was thinking about trying the beeosphere system next year or the dadant cassette, so I wanted to know the difference.

    Do you think any of them would be more advantageous for a beginner over the others?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Gillett, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    265

    Post

    i was going to buy the stuff for the RR (Ross Rounds) but i went with the BOP (bee-o-pac) because if i decide that i dont want to do comb honey i wont have the extra equipment laying around.
    also to buy the covers i see that the minimun to be able to buy is 200 count. i didnt have the extra cash to be able to do that, not to mention the foundation you have to buy to put in and the modified super

    i did a comparison money-wise and the BOP's are cheaper by far, as well as a better profit.

    The BOP is about $60 WITH shipping for 128/4oz comb containers and lids, then the medium super for $9 (of which i already had). So the total for the BOP is around $69 shipping including.

    now the RR, for sake of ease you buy the RR complete set-up giving you 32/8oz containers for $53 (at Dadant) plus shipping (but i would be able to do a pickup myself), then you have to buy the foundation for $8 (minimum of 28 sheets/box), then you have to buy the covers minimum of 200 for $27 - granted you'll be using 2 per comb. So the total for the RR is around $88 PLUS shipping.

    No cost of lables so far, but i do believe the RR's need some sort of label or tape to hold the two covers together and according to the BOP website the lid should snap in place (i dont know yet for sure).

    For the RR the going selling price (i think) is around $4.50 so net profit is $56.00 and shipping still needs to apply (32 x $4.50 = $144 - $88 = $56)

    For the BOP they say the going selling price should be around $3.00 (dont know yet) so the net profit is $315.00 shipping already included (128 x $3 = $384 - $69 = $315)

    just my 2 cents worth, hope it helps
    Deanna

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    hermiston, oregon
    Posts
    458

    Post

    WOW...

    Fellow prospectors/beekeepers..

    It is a small world.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,797

    Post

    The Bee-O-Pacs are much less of an investment. They fit a standard medium super with no special equipment.

    But I've only bought them this year and haven't got any filled yet. So I can't say for sure.

    The best for a beginner is probably just cut comb. It's easy enough.

  12. #12
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    Deanna said:

    > i did a comparison money-wise and the BOP's are cheaper
    > by far, as well as a better profit.

    What Deanna forgot to consider was that her own math shows
    that the initial investment in Ross Round gear is recovered
    with the first harvested crop of comb honey, and for subsequent
    harvests, the profits are much larger. The subsequent harvests
    require one to only buy foundation and covers for Ross Rounds.

    For the Bee-O-Pac, one must re-purchase the entire kit with
    each harvested crop of honey, and one never makes a larger
    profit.

    If 200 covers are bought for $27, then the price of covers
    "per filled super" would be ($27 / 200) * (2 * 32) = $8.64

    If 28 sheets of foundation are bought for $8, the cost of
    foundation "per filled super" would be ($8 / 28) * 8 = $2.28

    So, in the second year, one sells a full super of Ross Round
    combs with a "cost" of only $8.64 + $2.28 = $10.92, while the
    Bee-O-Pac system will cost you the same amount each year ($69.00)

    To go further, any unfilled sections in the Bee-O-Pack are
    very expensive "waste", as one must destroy the "frame" to be
    able to sell any filled sections. With the Ross Rounds, one's
    "cost of waste" is much much lower, as one has only wasted 1/4
    a sheet of foundation, and has not wasted any covers.

    Further, if a 8 oz Ross Round comb sells for $4.50, how does
    anyone expect to sell a 4 oz Bee-O-Pac comb for $3.00 ????

    Further still, will the bees fill all 128 Bee-O-Pac sections ?
    I dunno - my Bee-O-Pac order arrived far too late for our main
    honey flow, and therefore cannot be given a fair trial until
    next spring.




  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Gillett, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    265

    Post

    its not that i "forgot"
    i was doing a comparison as if you would not do any more comb the next season and i know its not much difference but the every yr expense would be $60.00 - knocking off the $9 for the super

    as long as your customers never bought the 8oz RR they wont know any difference from $4.50 to $3.00 for 4oz

    i as well dont know how they will sell i'm just like everyone else trying it out but also i was writting my oppinion being i've never tried ANY comb honey and since i dont know if i want to continue with it next year that is why i did a comparison price-wise and went with the BOP instead of the RR for sake of extra equipment laying around example being (don't take this personally-not picking on anyone) http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000201.html
    Deanna

  14. #14
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    There are NO business decisions that can
    be based soley upon the relative up-front
    investment when the two figures are so
    close to each other.

    It is true that if one's customers have
    never seen comb honey before, one could
    charge whatever one wanted for a 4 oz
    section. It is also true that one could
    charge whatever one wanted for an 8 oz
    section! Regardless, one cannot claim
    that the price of an 8 oz section is
    somehow cast in stone while claiming that
    one could somehow "charge more" for the
    4 oz simply because it is new.

    My problem with the Bee-O-Pac is that it
    appears to violate several basic concepts
    of comb honey production that have been
    studied to death in attempts to better
    understand how to make more comb honey.

    1) There are no movement paths around the
    comb super for non-comb making bees to
    use.

    2) The sections are square. The problem
    with the old basswood (square) sections
    was that the corners would not get filled,
    which led to progress in the form of
    round sections. Why go back?

    3) The "foundation" is plastic rather than
    wax, something that has been debated for
    years, with the best that can be said
    about plastic being "the bees can be
    convinced to draw it out".

    That said, compress a colony into a small
    enough space during a good enough nectar
    flow, and they will draw comb no matter
    what barriers they face. The questions in
    my mind are all about how MUCH comb honey
    I can make per hive in a season, and what
    advantage might be offered by this new
    product, if any.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Gillett, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    265

    Post

    your right in the way of long term investment $$ for the RR, i'm not arguing with you there, i was going to buy the RR myself until i heard of the BOP on this site

    From my wallets' view point this year i was hoping for less cash out and more cash in (provided all 128 DO get filled, i myself was questioning that)

    also, like you, i wanted to try it out

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,797

    Post

    >My problem with the Bee-O-Pac is that it
    appears to violate several basic concepts
    of comb honey production that have been
    studied to death in attempts to better
    understand how to make more comb honey.

    >1) There are no movement paths around the
    comb super for non-comb making bees to
    use.

    True. I guess we'll all find out how that effects it.

    >2) The sections are square. The problem
    with the old basswood (square) sections
    was that the corners would not get filled,
    which led to progress in the form of
    round sections. Why go back?

    But they did cut the very corner so they aren't perfectly square. Of course they aren't round either.

    >3) The "foundation" is plastic rather than
    wax, something that has been debated for
    years, with the best that can be said
    about plastic being "the bees can be
    convinced to draw it out".

    We'll all have to see how the bees like it, but it means less wax in the comb honey. It also (as all half comb systems) means you have to scrape the comb honey out of the container. I'm fond of cutting off a slice and laying the slice on my toast. For that you have to have a full comb like you get in RR or cut comb or section boxes.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    4

    Post

    Ive heard that comb honey producers often feed the colony to fill the comb. I think they do this with honey. Heres any idea i would like to try, how about feeding the bees fruit juices? Say orange juice, then grape, then strawberry......would this change the color/flavor of the honey? Maybe the beeopacs would look like a rainbow from the back.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    311

    Post

    NOT a good Idea.
    The bees would end up with dysentry at the very least even if they took up the fruit juice. To many impuritys and their digestive systems are not ment to sift or filter out much more than simple and complex sugars.
    I wouldnt recomend it.

    John Russell

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