Newbee scared about mites

[spencer]

I'll be starting my first hive with a 3lb. package at the end of the month and am very concerned about investing all of this money for it all to fail from mites. I've been doing some reading on small cell foundation and also foundationless frames for some mite control. How well will a package take to these methods? Or as a beginner should I stick with the old standby frames and just treat the mites with chemicals (which doesn't thrill me very much).

[Michael Bush]

>How well will a package take to these methods?

It's much easier to start a package on it than to shakedown a hive to put them on it. Personally, I would start with one of those.

>Or as a beginner should I stick with the old standby frames and just treat the mites with chemicals (which doesn't thrill me very much).

That depends on how you feel about the chemicals. I would put them on small cell, montior the mite levels (this is what you need to learn to do) and decide from there what you do or don't need to do.

[wayacoyote]

I agree. If you install them on small-cell at the beginning, you'll have less hassel. You will eventually face the culling of combs as the larger bees regress themselves. But They will be on that road from the beginning rather than later. I didn't regress and lost all of my hives except my one hive that was a feral put on small cell.

WayaCoyote

[Terri]

CAN you start a package on small cell? I thought that you had to regress gradually?

[Michael Bush]

I would ALWAYS start a package on small cell. That's the first regression. The next can be a shakedown or you can feed more small cell in over time. Putting them on large cell just makes another step with no gain.

One of the methods of regressing is to do a shakdown, which essentially makes a package (homeless bees) and then you put them on small cell. With a package, you already HAVE a shake down. So you put them on small cell and you've taken the first step. YOU aren't TRYING to make it gradual. It's just that the bees WILL make it gradual. YOU just need to get them on small cell so they can start the process.

[Terri]

Oh! Thanks!

[ron c]

Next week I will be putting 3# packages in 5 frame nucs on 4.9 foundation,and moving to 10 frame boxes when they are built up enough. Now I am not clear as to when to replace frames with new foundation and should the drawn frames removed be saved for inital introduction on later startups? Please add any helpful guidance that would be helpful. Thanks Ron.

[Michael Bush]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. When they are doing well and the brood nest is getting crowded, I might start measuring comb to see what they have and try to keep the smallest in the center of the brood nest. If you find larger cells you can move the frames to the outside edge of the brood nest and as they empty out with brood emerging, move them to the outside edge of the box where they will probably get filled with honey. Then you can move them up a box and feed more foundation into the brood nest. It's no rush. The goal is just to end up with the center of the combs that are in the center of the brood nest to be 4.9mm or smaller. Anything you get from small cell foundation or even foundationless frames will be smaller than the 5.4mm and will help with the mites. Some of what you get from the foundationless will be smaller than 4.9mm

With regressed Carnis on blank starter strips on frames on 1 1/4" centers I've gotten a lot of 4.6mm cells.

[spencer]

If I just put in a foundationless frames in the hive will the bees naturally make the small cells or will I need the starter strips to help them along?

[Michael Bush]

No, they don't need starter strips. The just need some kind of guide to get the comb in the middle of the frame. How did you make the foundationless frames? With a triangular guide?

[spencer]

I haven't made anything yet. I was just going to buy some grooved or wedge top bar frames. Would these work?

[Michael Bush]

If you are buying new ones, and you want to do foundationless, I'd buy the grooved ones and run them through a table saw with the blade at 45 degrees to make the bevel on the bottom. Then assemble them. Or you can cut a triangular piece and nail it on the bottom of the top bar.

[spencer]

Ok, one more question. If I use small cell foundation in the brood chamber do I have to use it in the honey supers too?

[Michael Bush]

I would use small cell starter strips or foundationless frames. But if I wasn't going to do that, I'd use it in the supers. You don't have to. I don't use an excluder so I can't guarantee where the queen may lay, and I like to have interchangeable equipment.