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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,838

    Question

    What works best? Why?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,015

    Big Grin

    I have used both and found little differance between then except when nailing then I find that the groved bottom doesn't crack as much when nailed
    Clint

    ------------------
    Clinton Bemrose
    just South of Lansing Michigan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,484

    Post

    When I'm using plastic foundation like RiteCell etc. I like the grooved both top and bottom. You just pop it in. When I'm using foundation, I have used the grooved for both top and bottom and wired it. When I wasn't wiring it and had split bottom bars, I tend to arch it just a hair to pull the foundation tight and then nail it in the middle. It's more difficult to take out the old foundation and put in the new with the split because it almost always seems to break the split when I try to pry it back open after it has been sealed up by the bees. I don't think one is significantly better, it's just a matter of personal preference, and I don't have that strong of a preference.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,643

    Post

    I have always used grooved top and bottom bars. The split bottom bar is weaker if dropped. More work to nail the split together to grasp the foundation, which is not needed on the bottom. More work to clean if frame is renovated. Grooved top and bottom with vertical and horizontal wires has always worked for me. And no plastic frames or foundatons of any kind other than to have around the apiary for examples of technology gone bad.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi,

    This is one of those deals where you ask a question and you get a hundred different answers. I like the wedge top bars and the groove bottom bars. I find the split bottoms to be easy to break especially when reprocessing frames. If one were to get sick of the wedge they can be nailed into place and used just like a groove top bar. I like the wedge as it hold the foundation firmly in place. I wish there was a source of solid bottom bars around here. Then there'd be no groove to scrape :> )

    Clay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,838

    Smile

    My thought was, that maybe a split bottom would separate and allow for easy foundation replacement. It seems, to clean out a small groove would be more difficult.

    CLAY, you mentioned a "solid" bottom. Does the foundation remain straight without any bottom retainer? As a "source" for this, can a grooved bar be installed upside down, with the groove not used?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,484

    Post

    The groove is easier to clean than the split. You just use a strong bent piece of metal (you can buy them or make them) to scrape it out. Imagine if you will that the more fragile split bottom is now glued together. Prying it apart causes it to suddenly give and break.

    I've never had one that didn't have the groove or the split on the bottom. I have used frames that had a groove on the side, a split on the bottom and cleats on the top and the foundation was supported on four sides. It was nice but a bit difficult to put it in.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    My thought was, that maybe a split bottom would separate and allow for easy foundation replacement. It seems, to clean out a small groove would be more difficult.

    reply:


    Sounds good in theory but doesn't seem to work out that way. Whether split or groove they both must be scraped. Add propolis and the force needed to scrape down and often as naught the split bottoms break pretty easy. By trying to pull the split apart is a receipe for breaking as you still need to scrape as nothing just falls out it must be scraped.

    reply:

    CLAY, you mentioned a "solid" bottom. Does the foundation remain straight without any bottom retainer? As a "source" for this, can a grooved bar be installed upside down, with the groove not used?

    reply:

    Solid bottoms are only for those using wax foundations. The foundation must be modified so it hangs in the frames being 1/2 to 1/4 inch above the bottom bar. As I make my own foundation I can cut to size however I like. Yes the groove BB can be installed upside down but many times the end bars from some manufacturers have a piece of wood that fits in the groove when installed so this would have to be removed if present.

    Micheal writes:

    The groove is easier to clean than the split. You just use a strong bent piece of metal (you can buy them or make them) to scrape it out. Imagine if you will that the more fragile split bottom is now glued together. Prying it apart causes it to suddenly give and break.

    reply:

    I use the hooked end of my hive tool to clean the grooves as it is easier for me. (less switching back and forth of tools and I'm accustomed to holding the hive tool.But am much in agreement about the split bottoms.

    Clay


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,838

    Wink

    Thanks for the Info!

    Dave W

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