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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    worthington pa usa
    Posts
    76

    Sad

    Hi all:
    I placed two 6&5/8 supers a week ago without a queen excluder on my two year old double brood box hive.Have read somewhere that the queen does not like to lay in these small frames so I thought I would give it a try. Opened up yesterday and found eggs in one super. Now I think I have a mess. I would like to put a excluder on but im afraid that I may trap the queen in the super's Any suggestions?
    thanks Scott

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,269

    Post

    Queens like the medium frames just fine to lay in.Of course you can look through the frames and find her.With only a hive or two thats what I would do.Otherwise just put the excluder on after smoking the bees down and come back and check in 5 days .It will be obvious where she is .Thats how I do it and half the time she will be down.Saves a lot of labor looking for queens.If you have a good flow it would probably crowd her down eventually.No big deal if there is some brood in the supers,it becomes a problem only if the queen fills a lot of the super space with brood and stays there.A lot of my supers are on the droneish side so the queens like to get there if they can and that helps the varroa get going too.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi Scott,

    Well as a beekeeper who utilizes ULBN management (3 deep for brood)it tells me your queen could use more available space. Many beekeepers use 6 5/8 for brood boxes so there is no deterant for queen there. Queens will lay when and where they have room. That is the principle behind unlimited broodnest, which is to give the queen unlimited amount of space for brooding. You have two choices here. Let the queen have the box for brooding as she obviously wants to lay MORE brood. Or place an excluder under the super then shake or brush all the bees off the combs at the entrance of the hive. The queen if there will go back below and the bees will come back up through the excluder. I think its easier without the excluder, others don't. The best thing that will teach you about bees is the the BEES. It is far easier to work "with" the bees in my POV. If they want more brood space give it to them.

    Clay

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    oneonta al.
    Posts
    805

    Post

    clayhat if you have a queen that lay's all over?I've got 2 brood box's,they are not full & she still laid in the super.I guess you could say the brood is spotted.(empty frame here full there & so on).this is the same hive that I talked about above in Bee Forum on topic,(walk away split).this queen is last year's queen that has swarmed early this year that I caught.She has build-up as fast as any thing I've seen.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    worthington pa usa
    Posts
    76

    Post

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I have been thinking seriously about going 3 deep brood chambers,you may have just made up my mind!. I havent had good luck with excluders. If I would have done this with 3 brood system would she still lay in the supers? Would 3 deeps cut down on swarming? what are some of the disadvantages of 3 deeps?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,447

    Post

    I use all mediums and queens are happy to lay in them and I don't care how far up she lays. But I plan on her using four of them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi Mark,

    what if you have a queen that lay's all over?

    reply:

    I find that its like one in 40-50 that does this. Alot of the times it is queens going up to drone cells in the supers. You could cull the combs with drone. Or I like to let such hive build up till just about ready to swarm from congestion. Then cut down (killion method) and add the ross rounds on for sections. Sometimes another reversal of the hive bodies helps out. But some hives don't always target in the drone cells but just lay odd for some reason. In this case I get my excluder out and use it. Let a few supers fill up and take it out. Hey, what can I say??? Sometime the right tool comes in handy.

    Clay


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Scott,

    If I would have done this with 3 brood system would she still lay in the supers?

    reply:

    Well sometime when there is lots of drone cells. But most of the time the bees don't. There's nothing really stopping them however. But if its just a patch or so who cares, I know the bees will be pushed down as the flow goes along. If you use all the same size boxes then you can manipulate things up and down. Brood down, honey up thing. The biggest thing is not to stress out when bees are doing there thing.

    Would 3 deeps cut down on swarming?

    reply:

    If managed properly I find that this is one of the best things of ULBN, drastic deduction in congestion. As for the disadvantages well, cost more $$$ for the extra hive body. Hive is heavier when needing to move. Got three boxes to look through when searching for disease, blah, blah, blah........theres no perfect way. No matter what you do you trade advantages back and forth from one way to another. One needs to pick one that they feel comfortable working with.


    Clay

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