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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Mostly - more than half say. But I'll take a good scattering from all the other promising stock. I have a rough evolving scorecard system - but for now I'm doing it in my head - looking to the good...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Thank you. That includes the heritable traits that convey resistance to varroa, yes?



    If you stop selecting - managing the population characteristics - yes. And if you manage the individuals...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'm not quite clear on your method there Roland - could you have another go?

    I'm working at giving all equal opportunity to flourish, and then taking the oldest and biggest/most productive. This...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Eighties with the help of an ancient countryman (and 3rd generation gardener/beekeeper dog/ferret/you-name-it maker/agricultural labourer), a late middle age commercial beekeeper, Biology lessons 15...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    All organic businesses have good and bad periods - always have had, still do. I wouldn't read too much into that.

    I certainly wouldn't abandon the fundamentals of husbandry just because Manley...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    That's a lovely invitation Roland, thank you. Sadly my old banger won't carry me that far, and I'm too skint to make the trip anyway - but you are very welcome to visit me anytime. I'll show you...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Alistair,

    As you know I don't open your posts right now. If you want to ask questions, keep the lines of communications open by being civilised. Always.

    I have responded to both these...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Fair cop, not clever.

    I still get plenty of control. Consider one of the most respected writers from the period before the veterinary model of 'husbandry' was adapted:

    "In most farm stock...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'm sure it did! (He took his doctorate under Ruttner.)

    That's one of the strongest reasons I have for talking his advice: following his method, believing that by doing so I stand a good chance...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    This is what everyone who is seriously trying (and those who have succeeded) does.

    And the bottom line is: if you don't take this sort of approach then there's nothing you can do. You're...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    'We' is anyone and everyone working at raising and/or maintaining resistance in their apiaries. There isn't another way to do it. (There is buying in bred-resistant queens, but without...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I remember about the same time asking you whether wing pattern morphometry achieved anything more than more bees with the same wing pattern. You were very grumpy about that question. Now....


    ...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    If you are trying to 'fix' genes, by exterminating all competing alelles, yes, I'm sure things can get difficult. You will need a large number of colonies, and they will continually...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    Apart from admitting that traditional husbandry amounts to breeding, you're struggling to answer a single one of the questions I put to you. Doesn't that ring some alarm bells?

    If...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    Are you saying these 'observers' are familiar with these things? And that one needs to be to regarded as any sort of bee 'breeder'?

    If I read (and understood) this paper would I be...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    Thank you for conceding: traditional husbandry is a valid form of breeding.

    I've been making new colonies from my strongest for the past 3 years. Last year that was concentrated on 5...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    That makes sense.

    You still haven't told us: does what we traditional husbandrymen do to concentrate desirable genes (in the knowledge that we can't, and wouldn't want to 'fix'...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    On the other hand it might be offering protection against treatment-dependent agricultural bees - and be a recent adaptation on account of that advantage supplied. The natives might be much worse...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'm not so sure. I can't see all (or most of) the imported genes being selected away. Some would remain as popular, or more popular (given climate changes).

    So the new race, and or sub-races,...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'm not sure it describes that either. In fact I'm not sure just what 'conglomerate hybrid bee' actually describes. Maybe 'homogeneous' works in the sense: 'they're all the same in being...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'm really just trying to get you to admit Jonathan that traditional husbandry is also 'breeding', and any implication to the contrary is wrong.

    What you (and 'maybe-line-breeding' specialist...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    While I think the author is working along the right lines, its a bit of a muddle in places. Who is this chap?



    Does the author make any sort of distinction between commercial breeding...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Jonathan,

    Do you think it would be more precise to say 'for a line breeder' or something of that sort.

    The way you are using the term 'breeder' here seems to exclude those of us who are using...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    I'd be interested to know where this author went with this promising start.

    "Guest Editorial: Endemic or epidemic? Sense & nonsense in bee hygiene

    Author(s)
    Leonard A F Heath

    Abstract ...
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    Re: I think we're barking up the wrong tree,

    Hmmm. While in sympathy with your sentiments I'm not sure homogeneity is the right term to describe the mass of hybrid material and the emergent viable local strains - which would, if left alone,...
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