Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

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Originally Posted by Kieck

Quite a few beekeepers have "gone public," I think. Why wouldn't they be willing to report losses to colony collapse (CCD)? So far, no definitive cause has been pinpointed, as far as I know.

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The only downsides might be that a beekeeper may feel ashamed or prefer the public dosent know about their business. The greater incentive was to report it as unexplained that way (up until a few years ago) you could qualify for an ELAP reimbursement if you could get an inspector to conclude that it was in fact a CCD loss. That's correct, folks, your tax dollars at work. If the conclusion was that it was caused by varroa then you got nothing. So it's anyone's guess how many of these widely reported losses fell under some classification of the as yet still unexplained phenomena of CCD and how many were something more closely resembling PPB. There may not be an ELAP program today but the same principle still applies. If one were able to prove any loss is potentially someone else's fault the prospect of a government payment or even a future class action suit might be your only possible prospect for reimbursement. Unfortunately varroa don't have deep pockets.

Ummmm.....so you don't even know where this came from? You claim to have edited the copy from the beekeeper, but you don't even know who it is?

....talk about a "stooge", you really take the cake. Sometimes the facts just come pouring out when you take the time to make a joke :)

deknow

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Originally Posted by borderbeeman

Your reasoning is so faultless and your concentration on the facts is so accurate, that I'm lost for words. Are you familiar with the phrase 'ad hominem attack' - that's a legal way of saying don't read the message - just shoot the messenger. It's the classic strategy of industry schills. Your last comment implies you don't agree with Freedom of Speech and free discussion?

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That is the point, there are no FACTS. just pictures, heck we can't even be sure they are dead hives... might just be guys working. Your unable to substantiate anything....... Freedom of discussion is fine. Flagrant lies are another. I live and breath more of the pesticides and Noenics in a year than you have seen in a lifetime..... and my bees do freaking great if i take care of them.

You really need to look at this months ABJ, or better yet read a real fact page like Randy Olivers. Notice, he sites if facts, and credits sources...... and does research.... Not just " I heard about some guy" garbage.....

This article and post are nothing but anti ______ crowd trying to stir the pot......

Let's watch the (lack of)civility and tone of posts. A shouting match goes nowhere.

I am here thinking, if the beekeeper risk all his finance and time to manage his hives hoping for a profit, how come he waited so late to discover his hive problem later on. If he is not lazy like me as a beekeeper, then he should of known if suspected to send his pollens to the test. Wouldn't you do a hive check or have your buddy to check for once a month if not biweekly? They still need to feed the bees pollen patty or syrup here so a quick check is needed to identify a potential problem later on. A prudent beekeeper can prevent lots of bee problems later on by having an eye open for it. You think he is just careless person to leave his hives there for a few months to come back in February to check them? If that is the case of careless management then he cannot blame anybody. Knowing the health of his bees then he can do something about them rather than waiting too late months later to discover them. By then it is too late.
Now he's blaming on the pesticides contamination from the west. Who knows where his bees got them from and where at? There are many variables like starvation, etc. He need to send his proof also if pesticide is to blame. At least we have a conclusion of his claim. If this is true may it
be a learning lesson for next time. As in any business, there is also risk and reward. Who say life is easy, eh. Sorry for his lost hives though.

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Originally Posted by deknow

Ummmm.....so you don't even know where this came from? You claim to have edited the copy from the beekeeper, but you don't even know who it is?

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You are twisting the facts here:

Bbman knows the author of the report, but he didn't want to reveal his identity yet.
That's fair enough, as such a massive loss of hives has huge financial implications for the beekeeper as well as the contractors who are losing out on pollination.

I assume we will know soon enough, who the author of the report is.
Maybe other beekeepers want to tell us about their losses in the meantime?

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Originally Posted by Stromnessbees

Maybe other beekeepers want to tell us about their losses in the meantime?

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Sure there are lots of stories out there, I recounted one in post #8. Some were exposed to foliar grasshopper spraying some suspect fungicides, both very believable contributing causes in my mind but the biggest thing you need to remember is that there weren't too many horror stories out there a year ago and planting acreages haven't changed much. What has changed, though, is the US went through its worst drought in 60 years. Hives were under tremendous stress, a very early spring may also have been a contributing cause by increasing the length of the brood and resulting varroa reproduction cycle. Throw a few more potential causative agents into the mix that by themselves might not cause a problem like, yes possibly even some traces of neonic laced pollen and the result shouldnt be that surprising. Personally I am surprised that there are as many good bees around as there are when looking back on last year. But I doubt that is really what you are looking for. Seems you are looking for villains more than for answers.

Hmmmm... seems a rash of disappearing bees. 3 months in CA... no one checked the hives.... hmmmm... maybe they just got lost and ended up in different boxes by mistake? Hmmmmm.... Don't know but I think it is plausible yes? I have read about someone who has been doing a lot of research and bee rearing in Cali... Maybe they are doing RESEARCH in wayward bees inability to find the CORRECT hive? Like doing research in AFB infected yards?

yea yea ... I know already... just couldn't help myself.

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Originally Posted by jonathan

The Xerces Society report, Are Neonicotinoids killing bees, citing an EPA document quotes 148-1155 days for Clothianidin depending upon soil type.

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Do you really think even those figures are acceptable?

Let's just go along with this quoted half life of 1155 days for a moment:

That means that in this soil type half the toxin is still present after three years!

Assuming that there is a noenic treated crop planted every year, the level of neonics will accumulate, and the soil will have to be considered toxic waste after just a few seasons!


Anybody who's alarmbells are not ringing now has got some serious disorder ...

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Originally Posted by Stromnessbees

Maybe other beekeepers want to tell us about their losses in the meantime?

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Okay, I go first, and then you.

Many of my 35 apiaries are surrounded by corn...treated with clothianidin since 2004...and soybeans. Not 100% of the forage area as some areas of the mid-west. Enough to have reduced my forage acres significantly, and reduced the crop in some of my, used to be best apiaries. I run around 700 honey production hives and up to 1000 nucleus colonies. My average honey crop beats 100 lbs. Produce some 1200 queens a year which I'm told ain't too bad. Winter losses average about 15% in the production hives and less than 10% in the nucleus colonies. Occasionally the mating nucs have issues wintering, as they did in winter of 2011-12.

We had a severe drought in the summer, nucs were strong through feeding time, and had a dozen bees and their queen in November. Sound familiar? I tell it as it is.

This summer was a good flow all through the season, and the mating nucs looked good going into winter.

So, where's the CCD? Where's the issue with clothianidin?

I watched that video. Hack whining more about his poor bees. Well sir, explain one thing to me if you are able being so far removed physically from the scene. Explain the possible effect of a 95% infestation rate in those bees in May 2006, when on blueberries in Maine. In May mind you not October. 95%
Got Virus??


I'm not saying neonics aren't a problem. Heck, I don't know...do you? Really? I'm managing healthy bees surrounded by neonic corn, and my bees are productive. Now, I'm sure I speak for others here when I say...Don't think that because I question these videos and ask for proof that I'm not concerned. This whole situation scares the c*** out of me.

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Originally Posted by Michael Palmer

I'm not saying neonics aren't a problem. Heck, I don't know...do you? Really? I'm managing healthy bees surrounded by neonic corn, and my bees are productive. Now, I'm sure I speak for others here when I say...Don't think that because I question these videos and ask for proof that I'm not concerned. This whole situation scares the c*** out of me.

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Mike, which part scares you ? the possibilty there a problem or the discussion around it?

Lets bring it back to this operator and his die off. Has there been any investigation to what caused the death? If so what have they found?
The whole story rides on this statement

>>>Rather they died because of the systemic neonicotinoid insecticides, and other pesticides they had been exposed to back in the Midwest, from May to September, among the pesticide-treated crops of soybeans, corn and other crops.<<<

Is speculation and assumptions the basis of their diagnosis ?

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Originally Posted by gmcharlie

Mike, which part scares you ? the possibilty there a problem or the discussion around it?

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Systemic insecticides of course. I'm not one to be scared by good discussion.

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Do you really think even those figures are acceptable?

Let's just go along with this quoted half life of 1155 days for a moment:

That means that in this soil type half the toxin is still present after three years!

Assuming that there is a noenic treated crop planted every year, the level of neonics will accumulate, and the soil will have to be considered toxic waste after just a few seasons!


Anybody who's alarmbells are not ringing now has got some serious disorder ...

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Here's an accumulation curve for a pesticide applied at a rate of one unit per year, with a half life of three years. It accumulates but levels off at just under five units, when natural decay matches the rate of application. Depending on how much moves from the seed to the soil and dilution effects as the pesticide diffuses through the soil, having five years' worth of applications in the soil may or may not be a bad thing.

Attachment 4405

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Originally Posted by SippyBees

Hmmmm... seems a rash of disappearing bees. 3 months in CA... no one checked the hives.... hmmmm... maybe they just got lost and ended up in different boxes by mistake? Hmmmmm.... Don't know but I think it is plausible yes? I have read about someone who has been doing a lot of research and bee rearing in Cali... Maybe they are doing RESEARCH in wayward bees inability to find the CORRECT hive? Like doing research in AFB infected yards?

yea yea ... I know already... just couldn't help myself.

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So, they found Robert Russell?

I will be glad when spring gets here!

why didn't the same thing happen the year before? and the year before that? where the bees in different locations with greater exposure this year? we should be able to duplicate the scenario next year right?

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Originally Posted by borderbeeman

The neonics are almost always applied as a seed-coating at planting time and the scale of the plantings defies belief. The figures included 92 million acres of neonic treated corn - which is virtually the country's entire corn crop; close to another 100 million acres of wheat, soybeans and canola, and the rest was cotton.

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If you had hopped on a plane in London last summer and flown to Minneapolis, Minnesota and then drove a few hours southwest from there into the heart of the most intensive neonic treated monocultures of corn and soybeans imaginable, how many bumblebees, honeybees and butterflies do you think you would you see along the crop field margins? Here is what you would see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE

Those sure are some Big Bombus's .

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Let's just go along with this quoted half life of 1155 days for a moment:

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That is the upper limit which has been detected in certain soils.
Why not go with the average figure which is measured in months not years?

Still no reply from the thread starter with his 19 year figure for a half life.