Fogging your bees?

I don't doubt some find it odd that Dr. Pedro has been so silent, is he still alive? Maybe he has nothing more to add to his original findings, maybe there was a slight improvement with the use of FGMO fogging, but that's it. What more are you looking for on fogging? What more is there to speak about concerning powdered sugar dusting? Hundreds still do it I'm sure, but its effectiveness still doesn't change from its initial use years ago. Unless some of these old treatments can be delivered in a new way which increases its benefit against mites, they're just old treatments. John

Jon,
Every species has its disease and parasites, not looking for complete eradication, something else would just fill the void, just to assist immature colony to maturity, immature immune system to mature.

Most people who use the fogging believe it is working for them probably without keeping records but just from their hands on view. For the most part it seems from reading actual research, although it doesn't devastate varroa, it does seem to set them back giving the bees a fighting chance against them.

I'd also say from what I've read it's an inexpensive way to at least combat varroa and seems to be more effective than sugar dusting as well. I do not use anything right now but I have thought about using fogging, I do believe it's the thymol and have read where beehives near thyme are productive and healthy.

He graduated Veterinary school in 1962. If he was 24 at that time it makes him 74 now. 62 at the time he wrote that report. Is it surprising that someone retires? He may very well have passed way.

In a search of his name I have come up with two different people one of which is obviously our Pedro. and at least one link clearly indicates he was banished from forums for proposing this method. Evidence of the venomous rejection I am aware of. And also indicating it is beekeepers and not Pedro that have prevented this information from being common knowledge.

A member was banned form a group simply for trying to tell others where to find further information or follow Pedro.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=18264.0;wap2

I found this from 2001
http://www.apicultura.com.ar/apis47en.html
included int the link above is this comment.
Pedro is Graduate in Zootechny by the University of Puerto Rico; Graduate in Veterinary science in the University Of Alcalá de Henares of Madrid and Doctorate in Veterinary science in the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia (USA).
At the moment he is retired as high official of the Agriculture office of the USA

So the study was concluded in 1999 and Pedro was retired in 2001.

The deleted thread was dated 2008. So some sharing of this methods was still going on as of then. The trail of that information was broken over one forums spat with another. So just who is to blame there as to the break in information.

in searching beemaster for information I came across this link.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._no_115=169445
A 6 week study that concluded there is no benefit to FGMO fogging of hives.

That is as far as I have been able to tack any sort of trail concerning FGMO fogging. The trail does go on. I woudl like to know where Pedro moved to from beemaster though. The one thread i did start to read ont eh subject there was full of grossly inaccurate information.

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Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper

I've got ongoing work with it

WVU/UMD has ongoing work with it

-Fat Bee Man, Michael Bush I believe, there is quite a bit of ongoing work

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I would be surprised to learn that Michael Bush is fogging bees...

I spoke with Dr Rodriguez on the phone several years ago and he sent me Thymol crystals and some literature on Thymol Fogging and Cords. At that time I remember him saying that he was thinking about closing down his VA Non-Profit Honey Bee Research operation in Virginia Beach to relocate permanently to Spain. I sensed in the conversation he was extremely frustrated at the push back he was receiving from the general beekeeping community. At this point in time it sounded like he had abandoned the theory that FGMO alone was effective at controlling mites, but he was confident that if Thymol FGMO Fogging & Thymol Soaked Cords were both used on a regular basis that is was a very effective mite control method. I'm not sure if he is still with us or not, I think he was in his 90's back then.

I have a fogger stored in my garage that never gets used anymore. It may work effectively with Thymol, but I do not have the time to keep up with it religiously as outlined in Pedro's protocol. I'm successfully addressing mites with other methods that are not as time consuming in their application as fogging is.

Maryland Beekeeper, what's wrong with complete eradication? Did we not have a complete absence of varroa at one time in this country? I would go back to those days in a heartbeat. I think that saying without varroa something else would fill the void quite possibly would happen eventually, as honey bees always seem to have been plagued with some pest or disease in modern history. I still would rather be varroa-less and take my chances with the next pest that comes along, I just despise the nasty bugger. John

John,
Nothing wrong with it, just more than I am hoping for for foreseeable future, and I was mistaken about Mr. Bush.

Mike,
What's quicker than fogging ?

Maryland Beekeeper, I hear you, I don't expect anything major helping the bees in the near future either, I mean, how much more is there to learn about the mite that we don't already know, most of what we know or are capable of knowing about the mite is behind us. Until a better bee is developed that is extremely hygienic towards the mite, we are going to have to continue to experiment with new treatments that can kill a bug on a bug without harming the host bug over the longer term. John

Could fogging knock the mites back enough so that the bees can survive and still be able to build a natural resistance to them? I understand that it will not kill all of them, but maybe enough to make a difference. I would like to not only see my hives but the feral bees in my area develop a resistance to the mites and the viruses if that is possible.

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Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper

Mike,
What's quicker than fogging ?

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Almost everything else out there is less demanding. Strips, pads, Oxalic Acid, etc. Most are a one or three step process that only takes a few minutes per application. Pedro said that for his fogging method to work properly you need to fog "every" week, excluding periods you are in a nectar flow or if the bees are clustered tight in winter. And Thymol cords must be kept on the top bars continuously. With my other job and family obligations it would not be possible for me to visit all my sites every week to keep up with his protocol. It's just not a good fit for me.

By the way, I'm not promoting or debunking fogging. Just relating what was explained to me. I never used it long enough to determine if it works effectively or not. I tried fogging with Thymol for one season, but not methodically as I should have. It didn't work for me, the mites exploded at the end of summer and I had some serious problems as a result. Had I applied it religiously, it may have worked. I don't know.

Well what i have planed for this year is to use drone frames plus have a brood break and use SBBs and fogging when needed . Plus i'm going to make some splits maybe some swarms{thats another problem i need to figure out} and make try to make 10 nucs for spring .
And of course queens so i'm sure i'll have bees going into winter.
I'll be keeping records on all my hives and i'll let everyone know how fogging works out .
Can't wait till spring i checked my hives today and all are humming peacfully theres some bee's that must of thought it was warm and it was not and they didn't make it back to the hives and dot the snow with there bodys:(

Barry
What are you asking for the fogger?
John

well I an not going to say a lot about 4.9 cell size or fogging for one reason. two many arm chair experts that have maybe 1-3 hives come across as a expert and just confuse new beekeepers her to learn. when I would post here some know it all deletes it so why make a effort to post. I run plenty hives and make a living at it. I sell bees and queens to those no believers in fogging or 4.9
let me tell you just 1 thing why there not going to say it works==THERE IS NO MONEY IT FOR THEM CAN'T MAKE A DIME ON IT. now I will be silent for many more yrs. just one thing look at how long some of these guys been on here with thousands of post, I been on here many yrs with less then 500 post=======I will wait to see how long it takes for this to be deleted

There's no money in vitamins, herbs, supplements etc., the cure comes with the surgical knife and drugs, that's the way they want it to be because that's where the money is. Could there be a similar situation when it comes to varroa treatments, I really don't think so in this case, IMO. However, I do think that there is some help with FGMO and smaller cell size. John

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Originally Posted by fat/beeman

well I an not going to say a lot about 4.9 cell size or fogging for one reason. two many arm chair experts that have maybe 1-3 hives come across as a expert and just confuse new beekeepers her to learn. when I would post here some know it all deletes it so why make a effort to post. I run plenty hives and make a living at it. I sell bees and queens to those no believers in fogging or 4.9
let me tell you just 1 thing why there not going to say it works==THERE IS NO MONEY IT FOR THEM CAN'T MAKE A DIME ON IT. now I will be silent for many more yrs. just one thing look at how long some of these guys been on here with thousands of post, I been on here many yrs with less then 500 post=======I will wait to see how long it takes for this to be deleted

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fat/beeman if thats you in the youtube on fogging well just to let you know i'm on 4.9 cell and just bought a fogger and i'll know how it works this spring and i must say thank you for the info i listen to all good beekeeper that give good knowledge about beekeeping and now i know how to fog i didn't know anything about it a month ago but thanks to you i now know..:D

You better keep posting fatbeeman. There are alot of beekeepers that watch your videos and are unable to "talk" to you in great detail. You obviously know what you are doing.... so do us a favor and pass along you knowledge on video as well as here.
I am a firm believer that if you can teach others.... you know what your doing.

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Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman

You better keep posting fatbeeman. There are alot of beekeepers that watch your videos and are unable to "talk" to you in great detail. You obviously know what you are doing.... so do us a favor and pass along you knowledge on video as well as here.
I am a firm believer that if you can teach others.... you know what your doing.

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i second that.:thumbsup:
So MRBEEMAN thats not your uncle?{fat/beeman}

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Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman

You better keep posting fatbeeman. There are alot of beekeepers that watch your videos and are unable to "talk" to you in great detail. You obviously know what you are doing.... so do us a favor and pass along you knowledge on video as well as here.
I am a firm believer that if you can teach others.... you know what your doing.

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Ditto!

Mike,
My methodology:
Light fogger, (takes a sec to heat up), hit entrance of hive for 1/2-1 second, on to next one, I could do a dozen easy in less than 3 minutes