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Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

46K views 114 replies 35 participants last post by  SeaCucumber 
#1 ·
Hello all,
I would like to learn how to make my own frames. I know that some of you all do make your own, and I am wondering if you would be willing to share the steps and process here. Please post pictures or videos! I am really interested in pics and videos, seeing I have already seen some plans, but have yet to come even close to perfecting the process. The few ones I have made work, but take awhile to make, and are altered slightly for easier "manufacturing" and construction. I'll post some photos as soon as I can. Thanks in advance.
 
#67 ·
jmgi.... You can use a miter saw if you have it. If you do, you will want to raise the table (clamp a 2 X 4 ) so the end of the top bar will cut at the point that the miter blade is widest when you bring it down.. You can also make a jig (to keep your fingers away from the blade) and cut on a table saw. Hope that makes sense.

cchoganjr
 
#68 ·
Cleo, having a hard time picturing what you mean, unless you are cutting the angled piece off the top bar completely, leaving a small part of the cut on the other side of where the end bar goes. I think I would rather do it with the miter saw than make a jig for the table saw. John
 
#69 ·
jmgi..I'm having a hard time picturing it myself. Ha!! See if this will help. Run the first cut on the underside of the top bar (at each end) on a dado blade. (Same one used to make box joints.) Then use the miter saw to cut the slope by cutting from the end of the top bar. Since a miter saw cuts comming down, to make a straight cut, I have to extend a table out from the normal dado fence so the blade cuts at the widest point of the blade radial. At that point, the cut will be square.

Yes, the miter is better than a table saw for this cut.

cchoganjr
 
#70 ·
I push my 2x6 into the jointer (2x at 1/16” cuts) makes the edge just like the factory. Gives me the correct spacing and a pretty arc at the top.
 
#71 ·
Tilt the table saw to 10 degrees, set the fence so that the slant is 3/8" at 3/8" from the end and run the end grain side down the fence with the length vertical. If you have a pile of 19" blocks ready to go, takes about 15 sec per side on my (slow) saw. I cut both sides because I'm going to cut the bars to width on the bandsaw, then split each slice, making two from each slice. I get 10 standard width top bars or 12 narrow top bars from each piece of 2x6, I think 12 and 14 or 16 from a 2x8, I don't remember.

Watch that you don't have any fingers near the end, obviously. At any rate, this is safer than attempting to cut the angle later unless you use a "boat", and then it's a hassle -- one cut on the 2x6 or 2x8 cuts five or six at the same time.

This is why I plane them all to have a big enough flat that's parallel on each side, so they slide down the fence square and I only have to set the band saw once to cut them all the same thickness.

I suppose if you had a shaper and wanted to make a cutter for it, you could cut a slot out with the correct angle top and bottom. Lots of ways to skin that cat.

The nice thing about cutting the blanks the way I do is that the fiddly stuff is all done when the piece is large and easy to handle safely.

Peter
 

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#73 ·
I saw a youtube where someone in eastern europe had made a drilling rig. To do them all at once. Baseilly It was two or there drill heads mounted up to a peice of steel with a rail. He took the finish frame pushed it against the drills. Work real nice. to the point I am thinking about building one.
David
 
#74 ·
A gang drill would be nice, but way too much work for the few I make (compared to Kelley's, for instance).

Make a drill jig. Mine will be a piece of scrap long enough for the longest end bar I use with a pocket made of 3/4" scrap glued and nailed into an L shape. Over that goes a thin (3/8") piece of plywood or other thin wood, with holes very carefully drilled square and straight in the spots where they go in the end bars. Tuck a pair of end bars stacked on each other into the pocket, and use the holes in the thin piece on top to line up the drill. Zip, zip, zip, zip, two end bars drilled.

This way the wires will all be in the same plane and the holes will be straight. You can also use metal with proper drill bushings if you want to go to that much effort. It will last much longer and drill straighter, but requires metalworking equpiment to make.

You can drill all the different length end bars on the same jig, just make sure you have them aligned correctly when you put them in.

Actually spacing of the holes isn't a big deal, but they must be exactly on the centerline. Otherwise, when you embed the wires the foundation will be off to one side.

Peter
 
#75 ·
Just a bit of FYI on drill bits. The standard twist drill bit is engineered to drill a hole three times the depth of it's diameter. So a 1/8th diameter drill bit should drill a 3/8 inch hole with no problem in a single pass. If you need to drill further than that you need to use some other drilling methods. In this case what is called "Pecking" You drill about 3/8th of an inch pull the bit back out of the hole let the sawdust clear out of the flutes and then drill again. If you do not you will be over heating your bit and causing damage. You will not always be able to see the damage but it will result in a drill bit that dulls prematurely, over heats and swells so it is actually drilling a slightly over size hole or will cause excessive tear out. not a huge deal for things like end bars but still nice to know.

Since 1 end bar is about 1/4 inch thick drilling one would be no problem. but stacking two puts you over that 3/8th depth by 1/8th inch. Most decent quality drill bits will still handle this fine. but if you start stacking them 4,5 or more thick you are going to have to pay attention to this issue. There are other drill bit designs such as auger bits or bits with deeper flutes that address this deeper hole in one pass issue.

Anyway I thought this might help some of you trying to get these made and drilling multiple end bars at once. Picking a better tool might help you get the results you are looking for.
 
#78 · (Edited)
Richardson, smokepole, and Daniel Y - the holes in the sides are for wires. Plastic foundation in wood frames rocks!

If you are brain-bent on drilling, adding rivets, wiring, and letting the wax moths eat all your work, just make sure the holes line up with the slots in the bottom and top bars. I used to make a jig for that - it had nails that found the slots in the bottom bar and the wedge strip cut-out (rabbet) in the top bar from the inside of the frame, wrapped around the side bar and made a straight edge on the outside of the side bar for tracing the line. Another tool had marker stops to space the holes along the scribed lines. I'd then starter punch each resulting + mark and drill them.
That was when I was a newbie and had to ask things like, "Do the frames go in the long way or the short way?" (I never bought a box nor a frame - just made them all myself) Now I just drop a plastic and wax sheet into the frame and let them draw out the comb. ;-)

Daniel - people drill way deeper than that (3x the diameter) in wood (and quite accurately, thank you) all day long every day. Peck drilling is recommended when clearing the chips is needed, such as deep hole drilling steel, aluminum, and sometimes hardwood. Also, I'd suggest making your side bars thicker than 1/4". Your frames will stay more square, will last a lot longer, will take nails better, will have more gluing surface. Try 7/16" thick...I pull that off without trimming foundation most of the time.
 
#95 ·
Well folks, due to your help, I think I've figured it out. See photos below:

View attachment 4016
When I make my own frames I have chosen to eliminate the weakness illustrated in your photo in the above quote. I do not cut a dado in the bottom of my End Bars, I cut my Bottom Bars short enough so they fit between the inner sides of my End Bars. I glue and nail (staple) the Bottom Bars in place. This makes for much stronger frames, where the Bottom Bars are highly unlikely to ever pull off.

I also choose not to taper my End Bars, they are straight, rectangular in shape. I find that tapered End Bars kill bees, catching them in the angle formed by the taper as frames are slid back into place, similar to a guillotine.
 
#85 ·
Thanks everyone; I loved doing it, and hope to do a lot more in the future. It's actually really mostly you guys' fault that they turned out, since y'all gave me all the tips, pics, and advice. Thanks a billion! Yes, I'll try to make a video as soon as I refine and streamline the process.
 
#86 ·
Very nice frame Ben I made some myself earlier this year. I know this may sound like a dumb question but why on the top bars outside of the end bars do all commercial frames and the ones that Ben has built do they taper down. What is the reason for this, I'm sure there is a good reason why not just leave them flat. Please someone educate me on this. Ben once again nice job.
Major
 
#87 ·
why on the top bars outside of the end bars do all commercial frames and the ones that Ben has built do they taper down. What is the reason for this, I'm sure there is a good reason why not just leave them flat. Please someone educate me on this.
Not a dumb question at all. I wonder the same thing. I built them that way because pretty much all the frames I've seen have the frame ears tapered like that. Some light on exactly why would be appreciated. Thanks Major!
 
#89 ·
Nice job on the frames. As for the taper. I also understand it has to do with them getting glued in by the bees. What I do know is that it woudl prevent full surface contact between the frame end and the frame rest. Maybe a moisture issue???
 
#90 ·
I don't really see the necessity of a tapered top bar end, only 3/8" at most of the top bar sits on the frame rest, so the slight taper that the top bars have wouldn't even come into play, in that short of a distance (3/8") the top bar is going to come into complete contact with the frame rest anyway, so it would not help in keeping the bars from getting glued down any less in my opinion. There must be a reason for it, does anyone know if these tapers where put on frames decades ago, or is it a more modern thing? John
 
#92 ·
Daniel Y, it could be one of those things that was introduced years ago, and everyone forgot the reason why. Here's something I just though of though, what if the taper was added to lower the frame slightly so that the bee space between the top of the frame and the bottom bars of the frames above was kept correct? If you just cut a straight cut 3/8" across without a taper, then that would mean your side bars would not have as much depth in the notch (the notch that the top bar inserts into) and that would not be as strong of a joint. So by increasing the depth of that notch (which they did) about 1/8" then the top bar could be about 1/2"(which it is) thick at the point where it meets the side bar, and then the top bar could be tapered down to 3/8"(which it is) to give you a stronger frame that still keeps the bee space intact. We have to agree that the frame we use in the Lang hive took a bit of figuring out when it was first designed, and as far as I know it has remained virtually unchanged for many, many years. Because frames are frequently manipulated, they have to be as strong as possible in all the joints to not fall apart in a couple months, so much thought has gone into their design. John
 
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