Re: Affordable beekeeping
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Originally Posted by
Cleo C. Hogan Jr
1. If newbees do not need education,
Where did you get this idea from?
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then why would anyone go to college.
To be initiated into the corporate world otherwise it is not necessary. Most of the learning of my profession had nothing to do with my formal education.
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Most people learn better from books (a harmless jab at engineers!)
Apparently you don't know too many engineers. They predominantly learn from tinkering and failures more than any other profession.
Daniel explained how people learn. It is not the book that matters it is the written language that may or may not get passed on to the reader. Visual aids have always been used. In a book all you can illustrate is a still photo or a sketch. A book cannot compete with the internet that is capable of video illustration and sound when it comes to learning.
Re: Affordable beekeeping
If I gave the impression that formal instruction whether it be Internet or classroom based is a waste of money, let me clarify. I think these classes are probably real good primers for prospective beekeepers who are trying to grasp the basics, are they worththe money? I suppose only the student could answer that at the end of the class. I responded to the question of how an employer would view a prospective applicants ability to be an effective employee. In that context some sort of diploma would mean far less than the qualities I mentioned.
As someone who has literally 10's of thousands of hours logged in a beeveil through the past 40+ years I have still learned a lot on here and some of it from highly observant folks with far less experience than I. There is a wealth of information available on a forum such as this but one of the great distractions is sorting out the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Posters with virtually no experience at all are given as much "podium time" as those who can relate decades of experience. To someone just coming on here it can all be a bit overwhelming trying to grasp who really knows of what they speak and who simply regurgitates second hand information available to anyone capable of a google search. I don't have much trouble making the separation but it bothers me that many inexperienced posters struggle to figure out who is who.
In a learning environment whether it be in a bee yard under the employment of a commercial beekeeper or in a classroom setting where you are listening to a professor's lecture you are in an environment where it is understood that listening and learning is what students do. Employers and instructors will gladly listen to respectful and probing questions but long winded talks about why they are in error would never be tolerated for long.
Re: Affordable beekeeping
you're right rader, touche'.
please forgive me dan, i should have waited until i had my coffee.
let me rephrase,
does anyone else think that beekeeping practices are 'all mostly incorrect', and that methods are for the most part 'obviously mistaken'?
Re: Affordable beekeeping
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Originally Posted by
jim lyon
In a learning environment whether it be in a bee yard under the employment of a commercial beekeeper or in a classroom setting where you are listening to a professor's lecture you are in an environment where it is understood that listening and learning is what students do.
For most things this is true but with beekeeping there are too many contradictions at the Professor or Employer level. This is why a forum discussion often results in a debate. As a newbie this is good. As a professor or an employer it may not be so good.
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Employers and instructors will gladly listen to respectful and probing questions but long winded talks about why they are in error would never be tolerated for long.
Employers will have their employees do it their way right or wrong. Hopefully you can see the distinction between an employee and a forum member. Instructors (at the college level) are concerned with completing a syllabus on time. It is less of a concern at the college level that the student succeeds.
Re: Affordable beekeeping
Acebird...Correct..I don't know too many engineers, I don't know too many beekeepers, in fact I don't know too much of anything, and never will, because I will listen and learn from others. The word "too" is the operative word here.
cchoganjr
Re: Affordable beekeeping
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cleo C. Hogan Jr
Acebird...Correct..I don't know too many engineers, I don't know too many beekeepers, in fact I don't know too much of anything. The word "too" is the operative word here.
Cleo, maybe its time to repost your original comment from the "wax" thread ... :D :D
Re: Affordable beekeeping
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Originally Posted by
squarepeg
you're right rader, touche'.
Squarepeg, actually I agree 100% with your original comment. I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to illustrate the old parable about "the shoe being on the other foot". :D
Perhaps we can agree to move on and jointly "fight the forces of ignorance wherever we find them". :eek:
Re: Affordable beekeeping
Acebird, I know a lot of engineers, both at work and in my personal life. Ya, not all of them think that what is written in a book or formulated on a computer is gospel or WILL WORK, but the ones I deal with at work tell us to do things a certain way and when we tell them it wont work because of this problem or that, they insist on it until we physically show them why it wont work.
Engineers like yourself push their agendas and ideas without having actual hands on experience, and in that they fail to see what problems could arise and will arise. Example, you have a couple of hives, yet you consider yourself a bee expert and flood this site with comments on something you have no hands on experience with, which makes you look dumb. You might be the smartest person on here crunching numbers and using scientific formulas, but your hands on experience is lacking and in my book that could spell trouble to a person taking your advise, yet you sit there and argue with people that have oodles of hands on experience and have seen the results of doing certain things FIRST HAND.
Not to mention I have seen what you have engineered..................i'll just stop on that note.
Re: Affordable beekeeping
rader, i'm all for debunking nonsense, and pointing out when statements presented as facts may not be factual.
but i am going to try and be more careful with my tone, and do my best not to insult anyone.
i appreciate you pointing that out to me. :)
Re: Affordable beekeeping
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Originally Posted by
BeeGhost
Engineers like yourself push their agendas and ideas without having actual hands on experience, and in that they fail to see what problems could arise and will arise.
I am sorry that you have to work in that environment. It is an atmosphere that I would expect to see in a large corporation more so than a small company that needs results from it's engineering staff.
BeeGhost I have literally thousands of posts on beesource (my buddy is keeping track and will give you an update from time to time as to the exact count) and many of them I state that I am a newbie plus it is in my profile. So where is the secrecy? Where is there any claim of my "expert" status?
I have gotten complements on my extractor from people that have seen it first hand. It is hard for me to understand your objection to me building a working device from scrap material. Is it the thin dime thing? What really has got you upset? I don't think I am the person you think I am. Certainly not a number crunching engineer that sat behind a desk all my life. Far from it.
Re: Affordable beekeeping
Stop the presses: I am most likely in a minority here but I kind of enjoy the "birdmans" posts. They are often entertaining and occasionally informative. There is usually a little bait dangling there that you can choose to nibble at your own risk. I read them with a wry smile and almost always move on but every once in a while even I cant resist. I thought his response to me in post #44 was actually pretty good.....but not quite good enough for me to bite. ;)
