autopsy of a dead out

i have mentioned elsewhere on the forum that i had a hive that was for a practical purposes gone.

i discovered it at my out yard a few weeks ago. i noticed that even though there was good activity at the entrance, (no obvious robbing), it was feather light to the heft.

i brought it home so i could keep an eye on it, and reduced the entrance to just one bee. the other bees in the yard became interested in this hive, but i think i kept any full scale robbing from happening.

i found the queen a few days later, but the cluster was only 1-2 frames. there were some capped and uncapped stores. more and more dead bees kept accumulating in front of the hive.

back in mid september, this hive had decent stores and a decent brood pattern. they were foraging as agressively as the rest of the hives, and looked to be in good shape.

by late october, they had become light, so i moved them home.

as of today, the queen was still there, along with just a handful of bees.

i managed to gather about 150 of them, including the queen, and put them in an alcohol wash. i ended up with at least 150 mites if not more. fair to say varroa was a factor.

i also noticed a lot of white specks on the upper side of nearly every brood cell, which i understand to be pathognomonic of varroa.

for good measure, i've got about 40 more bees in the freezer. i want to see if there was nosema there as well.

the history of this hive is:

walk away split from an 8 frame nuc.
successful e queen one month post split
slower build up and wax drawn than its cohorts
very light by mid fall.
no treatments or feeding all season.

How is the original nuc doing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbrowncods

How is the original nuc doing?

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the other half of this 50/50 split, (and probably the one that kept the queen, not sure), is one of the best i have. it has enough surplus honey that it may be donating some to a lighter hive later this winter.

here are my journal posts for this hive:

#B7



102912: FOUND QUEEN, SOME STORES, NOT MANY BEES
102612: MOVED TO HOME, POND AREA
102512: VERY LIGHT BY HEFT
100512: DINK! TOP SUPER ALL FOUNDATION, REMOVED. DEEP FULLY DRAWN, EGGS
081512: TOP SUPER HALF FULL BEES, WORKING?
080312: RECEIVED MEDIUM FRAME OF BEES FROM #B8
060112: (BECAME NEW #B7 FROM OLD #B3?) VERY FEW BEES IN SUPER, EGGS
051212: NOT READY FOR ANOTHER SUPER
050412: SUPER NOT TOUCHED. SAW NEW QUEEN, GOOD PATTERN
042512: PUT 1ST SUPER ON
040612: SPLIT FROM DOUBLE DEEP FROM 10 FRAME NUC, NOT SURE WHICH GOT QUEEN
032712: DOUBLE DEEP NOT TAKING SYRUP
031812: FEEDER ON DOUBLE DEEP FROM 10 FRAME NUC
031612: ADDED 2ND DEEP TO 10 FRAME NUC
030912: BIG PATTY GIVEN
030712: DONATED 1 FRAME BROOD AND 1 FRAME COMB TO OTHER NUC
030312: 6-7 FRAMES BEES, LOTSA BROOD
022612: BOUGHT 10 FRAME NUC FROM AJ


i think this split had to make a queen, because when i saw for the first time, she was not marked.

today's entry:

111012: SHOOK OUT, 150 MITES/150 BEES, STILL HAD QUEEN, SOME STORES

Very very likely it died from mite overload.

My brother lost a hive this spring in a similar fashion, and I suspect it's the same thing. Those white spots are mite feces, so you had a ton of them.

If you didn't happen to have the mites carry DWV or some of the other viruses, you would only have seen a failure to thrive.

It's important to check for mites, even if you don't want to treat on a routine basis. A powdered sugar dusting over a sticky board is a quick and dirty way that doesn't disrupt the hive much. If you get a significant mite drop after the dusting, time to decide what to do.

Peter

many thanks peter.

no dmv seen, (except on rare ocaissions), in any of the 18 hives, thank goodness.

i was planning to check them mid summer this year, but didn't have time.

the double plasic jar with a screen in the middle is really nice.

i've got a couple of hives that are a little light at this point, but they may not be too far gone. i plan to check them, and if they are heavy with mites, i'll knock up down somehow.

if i have to treat these, my plan will be to requeen as early as possible next spring. i heard i can get russell genetics from a guy not far from me.

I think you put your finger on the failure to thrive on that hive. Makes me want to get good at routine roll tests. I'm intersted in the nosema results too. :)

Do you have a picture of your wash setup?

many thanks lee.

you can see a picture of a similar wash jar on scientificbeekeeping.com, do a search there for 'alcohol wash' or something similar. there are instructions there on how to make one. i bought mine from a place in canada. i'll try to post a picture, and one of the 200 mites in the bottom of the jar.

I read that Randy Oliver article, but couldn't quite comprehend every detail of that jar and how it works, even with my glasses on ;)

I'm just dense sometimes, I'll try again though.

Added: I found another RO article with a good picture, thanks for encouraging me to search for it. :)

understood. most of his stuff takes me 2 or 3 readings. it's college level.

if you see wax on the bottom of the hive those white specs you are seeing could be wax as well that is left over after the hive was robbed to death

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hawkster

if you see wax on the bottom of the hive those white specs you are seeing could be wax as well that is left over after the hive was robbed to death

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not sure why it didn't get robbed, it sure deserved to.

the white specks (mite feces) were only in the ceilings of the individual brood cells. i'll try to get a photo of them, along with the shaker and the mites.

here's the shaker with approx 1/4 cup (150) bees still in the bottom of the top jar:

Attachment 3470

and here are the mites, (tough to shoot this):

Attachment 3471


the mite feces will have to wait until i can find my macro lens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squarepeg

the other half of this 50/50 split, (and probably the one that kept the queen, not sure), is one of the best i have. it has enough surplus honey that it may be donating some to a lighter hive later this winter.

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Seems strange that the other half is doing so well, and with this being split you would think that the gap in brood would have given it a head start with the mites.

Looking at the shaker pics it definately looks like mites...

i'm guessing the emergency queen made by the weak hive was poor and/or didn't get mated well.

That's a lot of mites!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squarepeg

...snip...there are instructions there on how to make one. i bought mine from a place in canada...snip...

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Your design is simpler....I'd appreciate a link to your source in Canada, thnaks. :)

lee,

i was unable to put my hands on the beekeeping supplier info, i think they were canada just across the border with vermont. i remember them saying that they had to cross the border to get to a u.s. post office to mail it to me.

i did keep the little instruction sheet. it has a guy's name and phone # and email. i will pm that to you.

Is it possible that this is actually the hive that kept the queen? Perhaps the other have had to raise a queen resulting in a break in the brood cycle, which knocked the mites down?
Or, the queen this hive raised just wasn't strong enough to out-breed the mites and the other half is infested too. I had a couple hives that were just starting to dwindle in Aug while all the others were strong. Sugar roll revealed high mites in all hives. Looking at the brood, you could even seen a lot of mite damage in the strong hives. The queens were just strong enough to keep laying more.
A combine of the two weakest and a thymol treatment seems to have everyone back on track. Some are a few it light, but still worth a try unless we have a monster winter.
I would be worried about the mite loads in your other hive if that hive was so bad.