MannLake foundation

I am regressing all my hives to small cell 4.9mm. I have been told that all "standard" foundation sold by the various suppliers is 5.4mm cell size.
To get the bees down to 4.9mm a step of 5.1mm is required before they will readily go down to the 4.9mm foundation.
In searching for a source to purchase some 5.1mm foundation I called MannLake about it. I was told that ALL their foundation is 5.1mm unless stated differently,
I can't find that claim anywhere in their catalog or on their web site. Has anyone measured their standard cell size foundation to determine its actual size? If their claim is true, they are missing a BIG selling point for it, IMHO.:scratch::s

I think there must be a misunderstanding somewhere, as far as I know their standard foundation is 5.4 like everyone else's. You can get 5.1 and 4.9 foundation from one of the suppliers, just don't know off hand which one. John

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

If their claim is true, they are missing a BIG selling point for it, IMHO.

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How many sheets were you planning to buy?

Many people are simply using Mann Lake's PF frames. The bees often draw them out correctly the first time.

I spoke to a person at MannLake on the phone and she told me all the foundation they sell is 5.1mm unless stated differently. She said I could speak to someone else there and they would tell me the same thing. I didn't order any cuz, frankly, I didn;t believe her claim.

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Originally Posted by beemandan

How many sheets were you planning to buy?

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I'm small potatoes beemandan. Only 100 or so.

Dadant has 5.1

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=913

Mann Lake's PF frames are 4.9mm

Page 22 of their online catalogue shows 4.9 cell foundation.I bought several sheets of it for a Nuc and they readily drew it out.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page22.html
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/publications/cat2012/page22.pdf

Michael Bush has a chart somewhere on his site which shows the cell diameter of various supplier's foundation.

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

If their claim is true, they are missing a BIG selling point for it

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

Only 100 or so.

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I’m thinkin’ that the demand for 5.1mm…or even 4.9mm foundation is extremely small.

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

I spoke to a person at MannLake on the phone and she told me all the foundation they sell is 5.1mm .

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thay told me the same thing I order for deep and medium frames it is not 5.1 but 5.4

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Originally Posted by Adrian Quiney WI

Michael Bush has a chart somewhere on his site which shows the cell diameter of various supplier's foundation.

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http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#cellsizes

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Originally Posted by Mustang

thay told me the same thing I order for deep and medium frames it is not 5.1 but 5.4

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That is what I was worried about. It takes a lot of time and work to get the bees down to 5.1mm. I sure would not want to loose all of that and put them back onto 5.4mm again!

Yes, I know MannLake sells 4.9mm foundation. and drone sized also. But, my concern was they stated IF THE FOUNDATION DESCRIPTION DOES NOT STATE A SPECIFIC CELL SIZE, THEN IT IS 5.1MM STANDARD. This seems not to be correct per Mustang. I don't want plastic frames or plastic cores. I wanted 5.1mm wired with hooks of all wax. Easier to cut out queen cells. Anyway, I ordered them from Dadant. I am just not happy with MannLake if Mustang is correct.

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Originally Posted by beemandan

I’m thinkin’ that the demand for 5.1mm…or even 4.9mm foundation is extremely small.

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I am sure you are correct beemandan. Especially from commercial beekeepers. But I would bet the demand from hobby guys like me is growing. And I think hobby beekeepers are growing much more then commercial beekeepers.

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

But I would bet the demand from hobby guys like me is growing.

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I don't know about this. I also suspect that the majority of new beekeepers use traditional foundation. I would also suspect that most commercial beekeepers who will order many thousands of sheets of foundation, if they were informed that the cell size were 5.1mm, would go somewhere else for their foundation.
I know I would.

I understand ur thought process beemandan, bigger cell means more honey. But that is not my goal. I want to experiment with small cell to see if it does help with mite reduction. I want to all natural "organic" with my bees. No chemicals added. I have had several new beekeepers contact me to get bees on small cell and have not been treated with chemicals. So from my experience small cell is in demand.
If you are curious about this give MannLake a call yourself and ask them what size their STANDARD cell size is. Maybe I just got a temp. on the phone.
I didn't want to start an issue on this. I only wanted to know if MannLake's STANDARD sized cell foundation is 5.4 or 5.1.. Thanks for the input from all.

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Originally Posted by Goat Man

I understand ur thought process beemandan, bigger cell means more honey.

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Actually not that. My thinking is that the intermediate size (5.1) produced, if my memory serves me, a number of issues for the Lusby's in their early trials. If there is any basis to that, I can't imagine any commercial beekeepers willing to take the chance. And since it is only an intermediate step in the regression path, then once small cellers get to 4.9 they won't need it again.

I'm not wanting to make an issue of it either...I just don't think it would be a BIG selling point for Mann Lake.

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Originally Posted by beemandan

Actually not that. My thinking is that the intermediate size (5.1) produced, if my memory serves me, a number of issues for the Lusby's in their early trials. If there is any basis to that, I can't imagine any commercial beekeepers willing to take the chance. And since it is only an intermediate step in the regression path, then once small cellers get to 4.9 they won't need it again.

I'm not wanting to make an issue of it either...I just don't think it would be a BIG selling point for Mann Lake.

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Yeah, it would be a big expense for a commercial guy to try. But I am small, only 7 hives right now. So I can micro manage them and try different approaches. Half of my hives are already on 4.9mm cell and the others are foundationless. I plan on buying some packages in the spring, if I can find some close to here, and I wanted the 5.1mm for them.