I'm finding some of my most enjoyable experiences on beesource in ............ Hmmm, maybe I better not say. Others may come by and spoil it.
it seems to be a natural part of the dynamic and there are probably all kinds of reasons why folks come and go.
i noticed when reading some of the older archived threads, that the posters are sometimes a completely different group than has been here since i joined.
i too appreciate that this forum exists. it has been and continues to be very useful, thought provoking, and sometimes even entertaining.
Sorry Mark, it was in response to Barry's comment that the problem is occasional supposedly concerned activity. I started writing it quite a while ago and got called away. sort of falls way out of place now.
Seriously it is meant to make a point but also be crudely humorous. I come across way more down on this group than I really am. just my since of humor I guess. it works much better live and in person.
Seriously there are members or past members of this group that have made great contributions. being the largest group on the net speaks for itself and is a fact that should not be ignored. Likewise activity that is sending the most productive of members packing is something else that should not but ignored but then again may be unavoidable.
To just pass of feedback about it like it is meaningless is not a good call in my opinion. But it's not my group not in my power to change and really not my concern. I apologize to Barry if my humor was out of line I still think it is funny though.
"Seriously it is meant to make a point but also be crudely humorous. I come across way more down on this group than I really am. just my since of humor I guess. it works much better live and in person."
I hope to meet you in person one day and get a bit of a taste of your " since of humor"!!
Humor, espcially subtle humor, and sarcasm don't come across well in text. That's why I use smily face, to indicate me being funny or less than serious.
People leave beesource for their own reasons. I have know some of them, thru beesource. One in particular started his own BeeForum. In which he and a cpl of other ex and current beesource members particiupate. I used to participate there as well, from time to time. But, after two Threads were closed, supposedly because of my comments, I left there and haven't been back since. Even though I was asked to return.
Who knows, maybe this is true of those no longer w/ us. Or, maybe they have more important things to do w/ their lives.
As for me and any underlying bad attitude. When I first joined this group I read a lot of the books written by what are considered some of the greatest of all time beekeepers. I several times quoted information from those readings to others on this group. That was responded to by some of the highly experienced know what they are doing members as "I don't know what I am talking about". basically this was saying folks like Doolittle know nothing about bees. OF course they did not know that but I did and I guess it has permanently determined for me the value of the opinions and information in this group. If they can be that wrong there must be something seriously effecting what there opinions are. I don't really need to know what it is just that there opinion is that worthless. and I see nothing that indicates to me that it has changed.
Well for me its a time thing... Back after a cpl year break, working a lot of hives. Its a lot of fun helping or commenting on other beeks problems and seeing what others are seeing. Its a bit frustraing (I ignore them) to see how many don't have the first clue comment with facts.
But take MB work for example , fasciniating and really great, weather or not I agree with it, and this is about the best place to converse about it and see if others are finding the same things.
Doolittle lived over a hundred years ago. He was a groundbreaker in beekeeping for sure but for every truth you read in his work you will find a fallacy that matches it. Too much has been learned in the last hundred years to hold these pioneers up to the high standards that some do. They are great reading, nothing more.
If you want to be a great beekeeper read Doolittle when you are sitting by a fire in winter for enjoyment and read Laidlaw, Connor, Oliver, Palmer, Cobey, Spivak and others that are doing what needs to be done today.
I might not post as much as I like to, but I sure to get my kick off of this site. I use the site when I have a little down time, which is not a lot this time of the year with honey crop coming off.
A beekeeper works when the work has to be done and plays when the work is all done.:thumbsup:
Can't teach those that don't want to learn.:rolleyes:
HM 101 Getting rain tonight, which is a blessing.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Put me down on the POLL--- I LIKE THIS SITE!!!
Barry is that to much???
I've moderated half a dozen forums on a very large automotive board for ten years. People come and go. People's interests change. Some people grow, some stagnate. There are always those half dozen folks who stir the pot at every opportunity. People are people. Can't we all just get along? ;)
Beesource has been good for me the short time I've been here. And, its free! Developing, administering and funding a board like this is a work of love, not a get rich scheme. My thanks to those who make it possible. :)
Keth, I would agree with you in part. certainly concerning Jay Smith who wrote Queen Rearing Simplified and then 20 some years later wrote Better Queens where he discounted much of what had been written in the earlier book. Still this is a Quote from the likes of Michael Bush concerning the reputation of someone that was self admittedly that wrong.
"I think Jay Smith was one of the great
beekeepers of all time and one of the great queen breeders of all time. There
are many queen breeding books by scientists or small-scale breeders, but this
is by a beekeeper who raised thousands of queens every year. I think that is
much more applicable to practical queen rearing".
Also I only used the name Doolittle but that is hardly the entire list of authors I read or quoted. As I said this group flat out said that the words I used where an indication that I new nothing about beekeeping when the words where those of the greatest beekeepers of all time. And it is a very long list of beekeepers. All the way up to those of today. I just used Doolittle name because it is most likely to be familiar over other names.
Daniel Y - which would you consider the most valuable titles to read?
Max, I can't really comment on the "Value" of any particular book since I have not been able to apply much of it. One I find helpful on a daily basis is. At the Hive Entrance which is helpfull in my most frequent activity with the bees. simply setting next to the hive observing. This book often indicates what I am observing might mean.
Honey Bee Democracy has to make the list of my favorites.
I also read Beekeeping for dummies. It is okay but I don't think I would recommend it even as a hand book. For one the book is just a bit to disorganized to make a good reference book and secondly the information is a bit on the lax or vague side for me. I don't think what it contains is wrong I just don't think there is enough of it. It would be worth reading for those that know nothing at all about bees, hives equipment etc. That woudl not be me. I started reading about bees when I was 6 and started helping people with their bees at the age of 10. I would have done it sooner but "Grown Ups" thoguth ti was to dangerous.
Actually most of what I consider the best information I read in papers written by universities and I cannot recall which ones now. I have read more books on Queen rearing than bee keeping.
I also liked Constructive Beekeeping by Ed, H. Clark. It is a much older book copywrite 1918 but brings attention to many fringe issues in beekeeping. It might be a difficult reading for many but does bring attention to many of the confusing issues concerning beekeeping. I will say it is a good way to at least have the lights turned on when it comes to some of the thing done in beekeeping and why they apply. For example ventilation is good, when it is needed. but when is it needed? There is more up to date information concerning nearly every topic in the book but it does a good job of listing the issues. Importance of efficiency for the bees (don't mess things up for them) The importance of less air space in the hive and how it effects the bees ability to remove moisture (this could be applied in decisions of when to add supers for example)
In like manner this book covers many less than common subjects. maybe it is just because it was the first thing I read that mentioned many of these topics so it held my interest. but I think it si a good book that will help a person go from being a hobbiest trying to figure out bees to making many many issues apparent so they can make better use of there time with the bees.
This is a case that I clearly see it woudl be better to find a more recent writing that does the same thing though.
Otherwise I read so many books so fast they all sort of just live in my brain as one continuous book that repeats the same information. much of it did contain contradictions and that is why I say I can't really evaluate the quality of any one book. I literally spent days reading one book right after another. I don't recommend that method.
Oh and if you really want a good source of just plain old information. The ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture. Not a set by the fire and read sort of book but an encyclopedia of information. I think it is a good book to have around when things are in panic mode. I believe it will be a great constant companion to any beekeeper throughout there adventure. While other books may be read and enjoyed. and even informative. They will be read and then set aside. While ABC and XYZ or another book of the same nature I will want to keep at arms reach always.
Daniel Y, As disingenuous as I think your portrayal of other peoples thoughts and ideas about beekeeping is/was/were, if and when I disagreed w/ your ideas, now apparently someone elses, and suggested you get more experience before expounding on what one should or might do, I probably would have given my opiniuon one way or the other had you sited your basis of opinion.
I believe I usually explain things from my experience and the experiences of other I know, not from books or papers. Sometimes I do go to the books such as "Pests, Predators and Diseases of Honeybees", Morse and Flottum and "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping", Morse and Hooper. Or whatever other books I have at hand which might help sustain an opinion or experience.
What you have done would be considered plagerism I believe. Were you a Preacher or Lecturer and had done what you did, that would be unethical. I hope you will discontinue such a practice.
What a ridiculous thread. This is a great forum and it has been very beneficial to me and I use it frequently to learn about other beekeepers.
I wonder if Max2 has an ulterior motive. If Max 2 is disappointed or has some other statistical problem, perhaps he could tune out and not complain as the rest of us enjoy the Forum.
Mark, sharing what you have learned from text that where written to educate is not plagiarism.
In most if not all cases I actually said "I read, or What I have found is. or even Others have said...)
In addition you have a lax and error filled definition of plagiarism which actually is using the writings ideas artistic creations of others in writing speeches or art work of your own as if it was your own. Posting comments on a forum hardly qualifies.
But once again this is a case where reason is stretch to idiocy in order to even form a point.
I'm on here two or three time a day...maybe more depending on how my day is going. I don't post as much as I use; no particular reason for that. I do like this website over the others I visit. I my guess is I might visit the others once a week or so.
I too have noticed some people left or slowed down their posting. As already said, when you look a little while back there was a partially different group of people. When I look back to around when I had joined, there was a lot of people that posted then that I hardly see or don't see at all anymore. I personally don't see why they left, this is the best forum I have ever been on.
"Max, I can't really comment on the "Value" of any particular book since I have not been able to apply much of it."
Thanks Daniel for taking the time and explain how you use books. I have read ( and liked) the Bee Democracy book and have the ABC on my table. I for one would appreaciate links to more scietific texts, interesting videos etc others come across. There is no end to learning about bees, many thanks!
woodedareas - "I wonder if Max2 has an ulterior motive. " - I wonder what you are thinking of?
I'm not " disappointed" but had noticed that the peak was about in May last year for most visitors. Interest in beekeeping seems to come and go. In Australia we seem to follow the US and it was a simple question. Have you got a problem with this?
Reading this thread I wonder if there would be a place for more scientific links? Some experimental thinking?