Printable View
That is exactly what I was trying to state there is more to the microbe world then just saying that eo kill it off. Many are not impacted at all.
There is a whole realm out there that is not looked at.
But EO do work to improve the overall health of the hive.
When spraying the recipe of essential oils vs varroa, do you spray over everything on the frame. Over larvae, brood or what? I'm going to try it.
That's it sugar and Crisco in equal parts? I assume the oil/Crisco gets on the bees and suffocates the mites?Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlyn Votaw
HBH and it's knock offs will help some hives. Best use is hives with nosema that won't take feed. Or as a feed attractant for sick hive. Some drench the bees with HBH and report that it helped the hive. IMO it isn't very effective on mites. Tried using just that 2 years ago and lost every production hive [nucs survived 100% that year]. Bottom boards were full of mites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bush
Could you point me in the direction of these studies?
>Could you point me in the direction of these studies?
There are thousands of studies that essential oils are antimicrobial. It shouldn't be hard to find a study that lemongrass oil simulates Nasonov (Some of them were done by Orley "Chip" Taylor). That the microbes are essential here are a lot of the studies:
http://www.beeuntoothers.com/index.p...lliam-archives
JMHO and my experience with EOs.
The Hive is a complex of pheromones, chemicals, microbes, etc. etc. I state the obvious. The bees communicate the hive "homeostasis" through feeding each other, grooming, and spreading these hive "smells". The Queen plays a major role in this balance. When this gets interrupted/interfered with, the bees react. In my case, they blamed the queen. Kept superceding her. Quite using EOs,,,no more supercedures. My thoughts were, if the EOs are safe and "natural" you can use them as needed. Good luck with that if you thought like I did. Just remember, if you are using EOs, more is not better, and timing is everything. JMHO
Thanks, Michael. Great resource there.
There has been research in Egypt around various oils including grapefruitseed oil (not grapeseed oil). I know that grapefruitseed oil is highly effective against tics and lice when applied topically to humans and animals (they can't vacate the host quick enough!), and the Egyptian study shows it to be effective to some degree. Unfortunately I lost the website but if I can track it down again I'll post it.
The website that this research is:
http://www.buzzaboutbees.net/support...act-varroa.pdf
"thymol is a powerful fungicide" That might explain why I saw a huge decrease in chalkbrood about the time I started using apiguard.
I have my doubts about oxalic acid killing all microbes , studies have been done on its effects of microorganisms in food and in the human gut , it was either neutral or in some cases even beneficial to growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bush
It just kills the mites if done correctly.
see below:
Eight nutrients and antinutrients were selected - zinc sulphate, zinc carbonate, ferrous sulphate, ferric citrate, quercetin, gallic acid, phytic acid, and oxalic acid. Their effects on the growth of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus plantarum, Bifidobacterium longum, Bifidobacterium bifidum, one commercially available multistrain probiotic formulation (containing six Lactobacilli and two Bifidobacterial cultures), as well as commensal E. coli, were monitored individually.
The researchers reported that quercetin and zinc sulphate significantly enhanced the growth of Lactobacillus acidophilus and the multistrain formula, but that the other micronutrients had no discernible effect.
Oxalic acid, generally considered an antinutrient, also had positive effects on L. acidophilus and the multistrain formula, with no effect on growth of other probiotics.
I haven't seen that study, but the blurb posted talks about OA as a "micronutrient"....not really how it is applied as a mite treatment.
Deknow
I accidently bought Peppermint oil instead of Spearment oil as need in the H-B-H recipe...lol
But they don't seem to care and go nuts over it anyway.
My recipe is
for 800 mls of H2o
2 drops of lemon grass oil
2 drops of peppermint oil (suppost to be spearmint oil....oh well)
1/2 tsp of apple cider vinegar (I use my keylime juice from the tree) for acidity.
I don't use the imusifier as it never seems to work so just use my hand beater for a couple of minutes and it stays mixed.
The bees go nuts over it. We will see.
>Many are not impacted at all.
EO are very broad spectrum anti microbials. I doubt that there are any microbes that are not impacted at all. They kill everything from viruses, bacteria, fungi and yeasts. Basically they are the concentrated immune system of the plants.
Bees have been exposed to EO'S for millions of years. Propolis contains many EO'S and is made up to aprox 15% EO'S. Propolis is one of the front line defenses in keeping the hive healthy. I use then in my syrup not having any problem with supercedures, I see the opposite.
Rather an extreme idea, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsbees
Just who do you you think was extracting essential oils from plants to expose the bees to for the past millions of years you refer to?Quote:
An essential oil is a concentrated hydrophobic liquid containing volatile aroma compounds from plants. Essential oils are also known as volatile oils, ethereal oils oraetherolea, or simply as the "oil of" the plant from which they were extracted, such as oil of clove. An oil is "essential" in the sense that it carries a distinctive scent, or essence, of the plant. Essential oils do not form a distinctive category for any medical, pharmacological, or culinary purpose.
Essential oils are generally extracted by distillation. Steam distillation is often used. Other processes include expression orsolvent extraction.
.....
The techniques and methods first used to produce essential oils were first mentioned by Ibn al-Baitar(1188–1248), an Andalusian physician, pharmacist and chemist.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_oil
.
Certainly the plants themselves have been available to the bees for millions of years, but that does not mean that essential oils were available to the bees.
Consider that a form of alcohol has been occurring for millions of years "naturally" from fermented corn and water, but it wasn't until humans started distilling that fermented corn and water product that whiskey was available.
No, unless you think the earth is only 5000 years old. Most scientists believe that bee like creatures evolved around 146-76 million years ago with honey bees 30-22 million years ago. If you're talking about propolis if you want 100% essential oils then you have to distill it from the plant. EO'S occur naturally in plant resins or sap. resins are a component of propolis. EO's are composed of many compounds.
Mankind has been enjoying the benefits of undistilled beer and wine for thousands of years!!
I've been using Alpha 6 method for over 5 yrs. now, and for the past two years my bees produced more honey than any member of my bee club of 180 members.My hives showed little to no mite or disease problems this spring, so i never treated them (74 hives). I now have 68 hives, i combined some weak hives that i didn't think would make it through the winter. I'll probably treat again this coming spring .I credit the thyme EO in the drench spray and syrup feed for healthy hives. JMHO.
PS. yes, some have as many or more hives than i do.
Sorry for my ignorance. What is the "Alpha 6 method"?