a robert snip..
Let us gather all the facts and see how we can solve this problem and in the process make the world better for all of us Beekeepers, before we all perish in these "interesting times".
and the best of springs to all you beekeepers out there...
and little prayer goes out from this hillbilly to the one's that took the loss.. hope everything turns out well.
I am not a lawyer hater--only want to get the facts first. My question is-- did HE actually lose 400 hives? He said he was part of a group that sent out some hives. How big--or small of a part? Did he send out good hives in the beginning? See--unless you have the facts, and ALL of the facts--you are making assumptions of which you have no basic understanding. Bee careful--yes, bee protective--yes, but trying to conjur up a Rottweiler with rabies and aids when it is really a tea cup pomeranian. NO GOOD for anyone:no:. No one likes a theif--but people really don't like mudslingers and gossips!
Intriguing thread, and I for one (morbid curiosity?) hope that this thread is not closed and hope that those of us who only read this thread on this topic will have more of the details revealed in the future. Such as, what really happened to the bees in question? What conclusion(s) were reached? I'm not thinking dollar amounts or personal information like that, but just some general outcomes.
I'm a little hung up on how we even identify "the largest farm in America." Is this the farm that generates the most profit? The farm with the greatest land area? The farm with the greatest potential gross revenue? Some combination of factors?
Well frankly buzz, steeltons' post seemed sincere and open, questioning but not accusing, so many here "related". No harm intended. It is possible that ONE of the posters here is wrong, first time for everything!
Everyone is dying for someone to be a little more specific how "bout you?
Yes indeed, the details will inform and educate, let's see if we can get some good rules from all this to live by.
Also re: the largest farm, all of those factors.
yes sir information should have VALUE to a number of folks here.
without good information we might expect to see the same problem arise again and again and I for one can not figure out how that might be a positive thing.
the pather goes back to lurking...
Originally Posted by tecumseh
There are great risks in long hauling honeybees, I think there are greater risks in trying to quell information. If Mr. Pender knows information perhaps he should put forth what he has so everyone can make a judgement. It's not about a witch hunt here, it's about beekeepers being better educated. I don't have a dog in this fight so which ever party is in the wrong (possibly even just mistaken) everyone else learning from those mistakes is a good thing. If someone is cheating and they get caught thanks to the efforts here that's all the better.
I'm always suspicious when someone tells me to stop talking about something because they have the facts and I don't but they have no intention of illuminating my (alleged) ignorance. Why even comment? A fellow beesource beek asked for help, we responded!
That is right Joel, a fellow beekeeper asked for our help, and we should all respond and we should all try to help if we can and learn from it ourselves, you are so right. My points exactly. And from there, let's throw in helpful ideas how to improve this whole system for all.
....all details are in the posts and information refered to. check out the origins of the artcles by Mr. Oliver, "California Dreaming" in the ABJ. Might find it in a post or 2 on this site.
Also, the private business deals between parties is NONE of your business. I have specificaly left names out.
Now I broke my word of no more posts on subject, but the lasts few post bother me.
So much still depends on trust between people, in business as well as in marriage.
When that trust is violated, there are consequences, no surprise.
Hard to build, easy to tear down.
Just so you all know,
EVERYONE (THAT MEANS ALL) involved in this mentioned deal lost money, their are no winners.
Well lets hope Larry is right. Still doen't tell us what exactly happened step by step and everyones two cents on better methods.
robert lorge snip..
I agree no one takes care of your bees like you do
economic theory and practice suggest that they should if there is an economic incentive to do so. just casually the dispute sounds as if it involves neglect (by folks who are paid not to be neglectful) more so than anything boarding on criminal.
it seems mr pender is only interested in throttling the dialogue and the possibility that someone might learn something from this casualty. it seems mr pender is also confusing real loss with opportunity loss.
Mr Pender is not the only one that knows details about this specific issue. You see I am a beekeeper and also a Professional Private Investigator. (All names will be left out--you know who you are) I have personally spoken to most of the parties involved. I am aware that the beeks from WV have sent to California very poor hives. They have expected to get paid for, what I believe to be an intentional deception against this broker. I have seen these hives and pictures of the conditions of these hives: broken and unfilled frames, frames with undrawn foundation, supers filled with burr comb, chalkbrood, evidence of starvation, nosema, not to mention that ropy/scally stuff! If anything was removed I am glad he did it! He was looking out for the welfare and greater good of the balance of the hives! He even went as far as to rehab them and at his own expense provided feeding yards to the unrented hives that Mr Pender spoke about so they wouldn't die--you should be glad you get back live hives!
I am also aware that he has contacted the WV Department of Agriculture and has repeatedly requested assistance in this matter. Classically they "REFUSED TO GET INVOLVED".
The fellow from Ohio is clearly being railroaded. I am sorry to him for having to deal with this whole matter. I have seen his contracts and he is so much in his right--he should sue all of you that have defamed his character.
I am aware of treachery against this individual by people that he trusted. I have also seen contracts with the beeks from WV--they have obviously defaulted on several issues in their contract--so what they did was make a false accusation against this individual in a smoke screen distraction so that he would be so busy dealing with it that he couldn't conduct his normal business. I also know for a fact, and have seen with my own eyes the person that he thought he could trust actually place bees and frames from other hives into his own hives then claimed the broker did it in order to defray attention from himself.
So now--what do you think about that! Everybody wants to know the truth--well--THERE IT IS!:doh:
and to top that...
Typically I don't get into someone else's fight--but the injustice that is being presented here is an atrocity. I was so concerned about getting to the bottom of this I put in 20 hours of my own time to find out all of these facts. It is amazing what happens when having a cup of coffee and listening and keeping your mouth shut. Maybe the rest of you could do the same:lookout:
If I sent my broker hives as bad as you say these from WV are (and I'm not saying they weren't) he wouldn't accept them and either put them in a dead out yard or send them back. Our brokers notify us as soon as the hives are graded which have made the grade and which haven't. There is no combining of hives or anything and any feeding that the broker feels needs to be done is requested before any feeding is done.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think it demonstrates that sending bees to Almonds should not be taken lightly and that both beeks and brokers should take steps to protect themselves.
The guy from Ohio
I do know there was a shady character in the Delano area looking for bees this January. He told a local beekeeper that in addition to a commission he would remove several frames from each colony to bolster his own. This is a huge red flag. Local guy passed.
Just curious, how does a detective remove someones' rights?
This just keeps getting better and better.:popcorn:
I've never seen a more entertaining run of posts. Amazing