Bad Neighbor problems

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Originally Posted by JustBob

Now having said that, you will probably have an enemy for life who can make life even more miserable for you.

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Which is why I suggested a possible easy way out. If the bees were re-located, and maybe some sort of visual barrier to her line of sight was put up or planted, it might be out of sight-out of mind.

I've dealt with too many drug addicted/drunken/criminal types as a beekeeper/employer. They always want to get even with those they blame for their problems. It's always the employer's fault when they get fired or not called back. Better to choose the least provocative path...at least this time. If the problem persists, then there are other options.

Peace pipe? A jar of honey?? Or has it gone too far?

I would suggest a tall privacy fence with a strand of electric fencing around the inside top. They won't be climbing over, and maybe out of site would eventually be out of mind.
I would also consider a tall privacy fence around the hives themselves.
I know it's an expense, but beats having her kill all your bees, over and over again.

I can't believe the police didn't arrest her for spraying the neighbors with a hose. Around here that would be assault.

If you talk to her again, let her know that bees that are sprayed get very agitated and will often fly around and attack and sometimes will swarm and land in a nearby yard or go into a house wall.

Maybe its too late for that though....

fight fire with fire......Get everyone around you into bee keeping. The more the merrier:D

get more bees...as many hives as you can legally have on that fence line. I would also press charges and take her and her son to court for the full value of all your equipment that now has pesticide on it, plus filing fees. once the judgement is made, even if she dosen't pay you....you might beable to garnish her wages.

Purchase the book Getting to Yes By Roger Fisher. This is an excellent book on negotiation, It may help when you are forced to speak with her.

-Joe

A taller fence and a video camera. Like some others said.... thats why I live out in the boonies....

My son worked in an assisted living facility for years with people like you described. He has that when one of them threatened him, sometimes with a fork or knife, it didn't matter how big they were, he had to stand up to them and they would back down. He only weighs about 125 lbs. It's kind of like a dog in a pack challenging the dominant male. You have to stand your ground.

what is she afraid of anyway?......is she allergic?

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Originally Posted by No_Bivy

what is she afraid of anyway?......is she allergic?

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Being allergic would be probably the only justifiable reason for her freaking out (not spraying them, freaking out). I know there are some people who simply cannot be convinced of anything, but from a neighborly point of view:

-ask her why she feels so strongly against the bees and what you can do reasonably to appease her.
-explain they are not aggressive unless provoked.
-explain even if they were a half mile away and she didn't know about it, they would show up in her yard
-explain that keeping them comfortable in their hives is the best way to keep them from swarming and moving into her house.

From a non-neighborly point of view I like many of the ideas already given:

-Keep a journal of events, this establishes a pattern of behavior
-Build natural or artificial barriers that cause her to have to enter your property.
-Warn her not to enter your property or damage your property via certified mail. Let her know in this letter that legal action will be taken if she violates your rights as a citizen and property owner.
-If you want you can demand restitution in or out of court. This may just aggrivate her and force her to "get back" at you.
-Motion cameras (such as game cameras) can capture her entering your property.
-If she does enter your property (or her son), contact law enforcement after this letter has been sent. Provide a copy of the letter to the cops, and have them write a criminal trespass citation (or whatever you may call it in your state). This will provide the paperwork so that if she comes on your property, you call the cops, and she gets a trespassing charge.
-Every time you see your bees in her yard, spray her garden with herbicide, and tell her you are training the bees to stay in their yard! (Just kidding, that one was meant to cheer you up)

One thing I would not avoid is documenting these issues with your local authorities. Sometimes isolated incidences will make the cops believe that you have both had bad days and things will blow over. If you can establish a pattern of behavior on her part for them to see clearly, then dealing with getting them out there and on your side will be a breeze.

A cop will look the other way once and let her slide, but not if he's coming out there every week.

Last but not least--make sure you are not violating any local codes or laws by keeping bees where you are, and make sure there are no other oddball laws that can come back to bite you. I would hate for you to bring attention to the topic, only to lose or have to relocate your bees, even though she is clearly in the wrong.

Good Luck!

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Originally Posted by Hobie

Get a dedicated notebook and write down every incident. Times, dates, details. May come in handy later, and you will not be able to remember.

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If you are going to keep a book, then it needs to have a sewn binding like a composition notebook.
Do not tare out any pages.
Only write on one side of a page.
Date every entry.
If you write something that you do not like, cross it out with a single line.
DO NOT ERASE ANYTHING!

This will allow your book to become a legal document.

Any correspondance should be certified/return receipt and cc'd to what ever authority you will be dealing with, ie: cheif of police, town or city attorney, etc.

Now I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

i would get a can of pepper spray ,the kind for hiking in bear country and i would spray her and her son in the face.i am having some neighbor problems myself.not bees though.

if it was me I would shake the hive down to 1 deep and close entrance, when I seen her come outside I would start hitting the hive with a stick, when she come toward me I would throw it at her then watch :popcorn: so the bee's can get revenge also. :applause:


NO,NO,NO Truthfully I would sue her for replacement value (new) for all equipment (not half, you didn't ask for this) plus the bee's you losed plus the time you miss without any bee's and this years harvest from that hive, she is grown and needs to be responsible for her actions. she did it and needs to pay you for it! if you dont get that keep a tab on what she owes, cost her when you can until even, war is nothing, you didn't start it but you can finish it. just dont do nothing to get yourself in trouble unless you can get away with it :D

a little secret, move the bee's and raise hornets in your yard!!!!

WoW This must have really hit a nerve. So many replys so fast.

Here is what I planned to do as Soon as I can do it. Move hive to the other side of my house where she cant' see it from her side unless she goes out into the ally and looks for it.

I'm going to do an inventory as I move the other hive stuff to another location in the yard.
that way I will know know just how much of what I need to get replacement prices cost for if or when it comes to that.

I also pan on leaving a hive set up in he old location or somewhere where she can see it. This will be made up of some of my oldest crap hives so it won't matter. I'll put a feeder on it so she'll see activity. Can you say Bait? The Security camera is something I am looking into. I want as much proof as I can get if them spraying poison on my property as I can get before I have to go to court. I already have her statment to the cop. I can go out and fill a mayson jar with dead bees.

The way I figure it, the cost of replacement hive boxs, frames and Labor to paint and asmeble sould be considered.
Empty fully drawn out comb should have a valoue no less than the price of the frame and the weight of wax + ?
Any frames with honey should be frame + weight valoue of wax + total weight of honey X market price for Unprocessed honey. That can be a little expencive at the home brew stores or farmers markets. I know it cost more than the bulk filtered stuff you get at the store.
Cost of top and bottom boreds + paint and labor

She's going to to nuts in a few weeks when the 3 citris trees in her yard are in full bloom.
I'm sure I'm goping to be blamed for all the bees flying around her trees.

I do plan on building the wall higher. I also plan to plant some Clover in the back and front side yard. It's something I've been planning on doing anyway for a while so wny not now?


Heres a little background on my Neighbor.

She says she is Allergic go bees. Normally I'd take a persons word for it. Not her. THe math dosn't add up. I know for a fact that she can tell all kinds of lies and believe every word of it. she can convincer herself of anything to be true if she wants to. I believe she has some kind of fear of Bees and bugs in general. Three examples of this. When her oldest child, her doughter was younger, she was very afraid of bugs. Yeah. I know it's a girl thing. But this was a little more than that. She'd get hestarical if she saw a cricket of if one got on her. She was like this up until about 12 of 13. This kind of extream reaction in a kid that young is not normal. It is learned. She probibly got it fgrom her mom and maybe renforced by other members if the family that gave her attention when she was action up like this. A conditioned responce. Now she's in her early 20's and dosn't have that problem. I guess she grew out of it.
When they were first moving in, the ladys sone moved in a few weeks before his mom. One night I was over there talking to him and he was laughing about how he was in the process of bub bombing the storage shed out back. I asked him why he'd bother since the only thing that lives out there is the lawn mower and some tools. He said because there were bugs in there. One of the first things I noticed when they moved in was a new bug zapper that they hung on the patio. Ok. so they don't like mesquito's I thought. a few days later I'm talking to the kid again and again, he said he was bug bombing the shed because he saw a sewer roach in there. I asked him if he got off by doing this and he just laughed his normal nervous laugh. a little while later he saw a sewer roach crawling up the side of the house and grabbed a can of bug spray he had left on the table and sprayed the bug. He didn't just zap the bug, he sprayed it until it fell off the wall. a good 10 to 15 second. I asked him if it was dead enough yet. He laughed his nervous laugh again and said, "Yeah I think so." I was being sarcastic and told him he'd better hit it again just to be sure. He laughed. but he looked for it for a second. I think if he could have seen it in the dark he would have sprayed it again. At the time I thought he was just being weird because he was bored. Now I think he's got a few issues.

So she says shes allergic. I dont' belive her. I just think she had a fear of bees.
Aside from my opinion of her being nuts, there are few reasions I have to believe she is not allergic. (1) back whan I was a little kid and she was probibly high school age, her dad had at least 2 beehives in their back yard. I know there were there for several years. Now. I ask you guys this qyestion. What father would put bee hives in his back yard if he knew his child could die from a single bee sting? I come up with only two logical answers to this question. A, he wouldn't. B He dosn't like his kid and was hoping for an accedent. Normally I'd find the second answer hard to believe but now that I know alot more about his kid I think it possable.
in know for a fact that she cooks with honey and uses bees wax to make lip bolms and other stuff.
The few people I know who have allergies to bee stings are also allergic to honey and bees wax. The one lady I talked to told me about a reaction she had once to a dry mead she had once tasted.
So, for me, the math dosn't add up to being allergic but points to a fear issue. Yeah. I know that fear is a real issue for those people with it. But it's not going to kill her. She'll just go nuts, hyperventalate until she passes out then breath normally again until she wakes up.
I could go on and on with examples of the drama she as cause to the family and how annoying her son has been almost all his life. And how the grand parrents have babied him all this time. Thats not really the issue. She's nuts and he's not been tought to know any better.


[QUOTE=jesuslives31548;388401]12 + Bird shot...... j/k, you ever thought about some AHB'S? Sorry had to add that too.QUOTE]

I have both. tust me. I have thought about the 12 since I was a little kid and she used to pick on me then.

The AHB is about all we have here in Phoenix. that is why I have been very careful not to mess with the hive until late at night when the bees can't fly around very far. they will still gather around the street light and borch lights though. at least they arn't flying around looking for someone to sting. They seem to calm down by morning or the ones that are made have been away from the hive too long and died.

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Originally Posted by Ross

According to one site I googled, in Arizona it is "a Class 6 felony to apply pesticides on property you do not own without an SPCC license." I suggest you read here then contact the county attorney and the attorney general for relief.
http://www.sb.state.az.us/

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I knew that was a law something to that effect but I didn't know exactly what it was. It is why I don't charge when I do a hive removal (Althought donations are always welcome.) and I am very picky when it comes to who I do a removal for. If I can't get the hive out at all or have to kill the bees when I do, I either say no deal or use soapie and water to "Clean up my mess."

This is a good lead I'll have to follow up on.

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Originally Posted by JustBob

Your neighbor sounds mildly to moderately mentally ill, a variety of anti-social disorder or worse to some degree. I would take her to small claims court. There will be little if any expense on your part as you will be representing yourself.

Some of the best advice I got in my 30 year career in law enforcement was from a pychiatric nurse. She said mentally ill people must experience the consequences of their actions. If they are out in society, then they have to abide by society's rule. If bad behavior means jail, civil court, or committment, so be it.

Now having said that, you will probably have an enemy for life who can make life even more miserable for you. But you can't use that fear to avoid dealing with her. It's her choice to engage in anti-social behaviors and she will have to reap the consequences. I've actually seen some great success stories when people are confronted by consequences of bad behavior, and to a large degree, that's what law enforcement is all about.

JustBob

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You have a way with understatment. I'm not saying that she's an nutty as your average crake head or anything like that but yeah. Blocks have been falling off that load for a long time. You are right though. I will have an enemy for life or at least as long as she things I'm an easy target for her drama. She's going to have to learn the hard way not to mess with people.

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Originally Posted by ScadsOBees

If you talk to her again, let her know that bees that are sprayed get very agitated and will often fly around and attack and sometimes will swarm and land in a nearby yard or go into a house wall.

Maybe its too late for that though....

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I tried to explain this to her but she would not listen and wanted to argue and twist my words around to justafy her messing with the hive in the first place. I tried to explain to her about how all the news stories I've read about bee attacks have one thing in common. "Someone messed with that hive and someone else got attacked." If no one had messed with those bees then there wouldn't have been a problem. She wouldn't listen. she won't be happy until the bees are dead.

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Originally Posted by uncletom

A taller fence and a video camera. Like some others said.... thats why I live out in the boonies....

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I've wanted a taller fence for years but the old guy that used to live there wouldn't go for it. there is a problem in the very back where an Oleander tree has pushed up part of the wall and it is now unstable. To fix it, the oleander would have to be dug up and neither she or the old guy that lived there before whated to bother with it. I can't do it with out her support since it's on her side of the wall. If nothing else, I'll get the rest of the wall higher.

Yeah. I hate living right in the middle of Phoenix. Too many idiots to deal with.

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Originally Posted by dave28210

Being allergic would be probably the only justifiable reason for her freaking out (not spraying them, freaking out). I know there are some people who simply cannot be convinced of anything, but from a neighborly point of view:

-ask her why she feels so strongly against the bees and what you can do reasonably to appease her.
-explain they are not aggressive unless provoked.
-explain even if they were a half mile away and she didn't know about it, they would show up in her yard
-explain that keeping them comfortable in their hives is the best way to keep them from swarming and moving into her house.

From a non-neighborly point of view I like many of the ideas already given:

-Keep a journal of events, this establishes a pattern of behavior
-Build natural or artificial barriers that cause her to have to enter your property.
-Warn her not to enter your property or damage your property via certified mail. Let her know in this letter that legal action will be taken if she violates your rights as a citizen and property owner.
-If you want you can demand restitution in or out of court. This may just aggrivate her and force her to "get back" at you.
-Motion cameras (such as game cameras) can capture her entering your property.
-If she does enter your property (or her son), contact law enforcement after this letter has been sent. Provide a copy of the letter to the cops, and have them write a criminal trespass citation (or whatever you may call it in your state). This will provide the paperwork so that if she comes on your property, you call the cops, and she gets a trespassing charge.
-Every time you see your bees in her yard, spray her garden with herbicide, and tell her you are training the bees to stay in their yard! (Just kidding, that one was meant to cheer you up)

One thing I would not avoid is documenting these issues with your local authorities. Sometimes isolated incidences will make the cops believe that you have both had bad days and things will blow over. If you can establish a pattern of behavior on her part for them to see clearly, then dealing with getting them out there and on your side will be a breeze.

A cop will look the other way once and let her slide, but not if he's coming out there every week.

Last but not least--make sure you are not violating any local codes or laws by keeping bees where you are, and make sure there are no other oddball laws that can come back to bite you. I would hate for you to bring attention to the topic, only to lose or have to relocate your bees, even though she is clearly in the wrong.

Good Luck!

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This is some good stuff. I've had to deal with an idiot neighbor before and know how to deal with the city. I've just not had one stupid enough to mess use poison until now.

I tried being nice and talking to her. the first time I talked to her about bees when she was first moving in, she told me she was allergic. I did the normal thing and asked about what kid of reaction she got when stung. pain, swelling. she say yaeh and also described anafalactic shock. I asked her if she carried her Epie pen with her at all times. She said she didn't know what that was. So I told her. Her not knowing was and Epie pen is was just one more thing that leads me to believe that she is afraid and not allergiv. she knows just enough about allergic reactions to describe one but not the treatment because she's never had it.

I do like that part someone said about giving her some of the honey from the hive. I actually thought about this and then telling her where it came from after she ate some. I've got plenty of good honey around here that I can do that with too. What I could really use is some honey from a soybean field. I've tasted it before and it had a weird medisanal after taiste. I'm sure she would mistake that for the poison and freak out. The power of suggustion can be a very powerful thing on a week mind.


Minor update. I just got off the phone with my friend, (The Psycho's brother.) I think he agrees that she has been unhappy lately and is up to her old tricks again. He dosnt' want to get in the middle of any of this crap and I see no reason why he should. He understands how bad things could have gotton if someone actually ate any of the honey from that poisoned hive and how she had no right to do it.

Only time will tell.

maybe I'll get lucky and the Carma fairy will drop a chunck of space junk on her head.

thanks for the advice guys. Even some of the bad advice still gave me a good laugh.

the one about the pissed off bee bomb was a good one.

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Originally Posted by Ross

According to one site I googled, in Arizona it is "a Class 6 felony to apply pesticides on property you do not own without an SPCC license." I suggest you read here then contact the county attorney and the attorney general for relief.
http://www.sb.state.az.us/

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This is your best route and inventory all the equipment and price it plus new bees at replacement cost. Then take it a step further. Explain that because the area was poisoned you were denied use of your property. Check with the DA on this also. You may be able to have her charged with illegal search and seizure (seizure of the use of your yard though poisoning). Check with an attorney for the amount you can sue for regarding this violation of your civil rights. Additionally, because you are not sure of what was used and the extent of the poison you should call your doctor and get the price of a full exam to include extensive toxicology tests and include this in the suit. Further you should contact a hazard waste cleanup corporation and get the price of a hazard waste clean up..which should include the excavation of your contaminated soil and the grass and replacement of each with clean fill and new sod. Lastly apply for a restraining order against your neighbor from any and all contact. This way if she does contact you in the future or comes onto your property you can have her arrested for violation of the restraining order.

Unless she has a lot of money she will have to sell her house to pay for the judgment against her...so this may also be a good way to get her moved. :applause:

What ever you decide to do, if it don't work I know a guy who knows a guy. :D

I'm not sure about the hazardous waste clean up. I knew a lady that had a neighbor that sprayed the fence line on their property line and killed one of their trees and the lawn in that area. They contacted police, police wouldn't do anything, civil matter.
They contacted EPA, EPA said since it's on their property, they are responsible for clean up costs. I don't know what eventually happened, but you could end up in a similar situation.

You have the police report. Take her to small claims court. Get a judgement with a time limit for its payment. When it isn't paid, report the judgement, (send a copy with expired time limit,) to all three credit monitoring companies. She will not be able to use her credit card or purchase any major item on credit until she pays you - credit frozen for seven years in our state. She will either pay you or move out of state.

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Originally Posted by Show-me

What ever you decide to do, if it don't work I know a guy who knows a guy. :D

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Yeah, I think I've met a guy that knows a guy that knows who you're talking about. He does good work. :thumbsup:

Advice: Unless you are legal with your bees I would be very careful about this coming to the attention of any city bureaucrats. Being on record with the police may not be a good thing if this escalates.

Definitely Not Advice: Give her a large jar of last year's honey and check on how she liked it a few weeks later. Offer her another jar and be sure to say something like "I'm glad you enjoyed it, it came from the bees next to the fence." A little later mention that the bees have never been 'quite the same' since she sprayed and you have no idea what kind of poison was in the spray.