BB, I had typed out the below comments for posting, and thought it better to send to you. I realize I am one person, but if there is one who thinks this, I am sure there are others.
BB, I am not sure in my mind what exactly this forum will accomplish. I'm a little foggy on the whole forum concept.
Seems that anyone really wanting to rip someone off, and make a few dollars, will not really care about a few people on Beesource.
The ligit companies I feel are human and prone to error. I think they also try to correct the problems when brought to thier attention. I do not think any of the major players in the beekeeping supplier business, has scammed or cons on some grand scale.
It seems most of the discussion is along the lines of commenting about good service, or petty bickering.
I am quickly changing my mind and willing to say, I am losing my warm fuzzies over this forum.
May I ask you to elaborate on the boards intent and structure? I can see its use in a narrow sense.
Last year there was a bee breeder who was way late in deliveries and refunds, and even that was lowered to those who felt taken advantage of, and the other side were those who felt as beekeepers we should give the guy as much slack as possible. The other two instances were the honey stick machine, and the rauchboy smoker business. In all three of these instances, I am not sure if all the posting on beesource could of changed much.
So to me, its about 98% fluff. And that comes from someone who knows fluff.
Is there anyway to contact and verify a members claims, prior to some business being hurt by someone's careless, or even intentional negative comments about someone's livelyhood? It would be a shame to have someone's business hurt by some person with a personal agenda, or a bone to pick. I think the potential harm can far outwiegh any possible benefit at this point. If there is a real problem, fine. But what happened to the "We are all beekeepers" concept. Seems that if there is a real problem, the details are clear and help can be summoned as needed by our vast numbers. Anything else below the level of an outright scam, seems like old bitty lady's gossiping and having nothing good to say.
Just speaking my mind. Thank you for reading.
I do not have any fancy letters after my name, no books published, and not many years experience. So please regard my contributions with the best intentions as just a member of this forum. Thank you.
Bjorn, thank you for your concern, and yes we should try to delineate the goals of this forum.
Barry defined the forum as "Share your experience with merchants and suppliers, both positive and negative."
I for one have had four different problems arise and three of those issues were resolved with the help of members here on BeeSource. Members here made it known to the suppliers that they had heard of the problem and were watching to see how the problem would be resolved.
Granted two of my issues were shipper involved, but there are messages that can be relayed to other members that they can benefit from. An example would be inspecting an order before signing the delivery slip. Once your have signed it you no longer can make a claim against the carrier. We can learn form others experiances.
This is what happened to me with an extractor I ordered from Brushy Mountain, it was called "hidden damage". That is damage that is not evident from the condition of the package, but is found when opened. When I called BM I got a 'too bad, tough luck' answer. The insurance they buy is no good if you sign for the shipment. Steve eventually called me and help make it right, but it took intervention of people here to get that done. They were NOT going to do anything before they were pressured into it.
I hold no grudge against BM and still order a great deal from them, however I would not had they not helped me out. There is more than one message to be learned here.
The majority of our dealings are with legit busineses, and no, they are not advertizing here to promote scams. I run my own business and know as well as anyone that problems arise. Not every customer can or will be 100% happy with their transaction, but there are times when the 'right' person did not get the message to be able to take care of the problem.
In the end this is a place, a forum, where you "Share your experience with merchants and suppliers, both positive and negative." We accept what is posted a truth as the poster sees it. We do not want to hurt a manufacturer or retailer, that serves no one. What we want to do is HELP our members learn through our experiances. Forewarned is forearmed.
[size="1"][ December 18, 2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: BULLSEYE BILL ][/size]
I have to agree with Bjorn's statements in their entirity. I think this issue was discussed in detail last fall and decided against for obvious reasons. Do we have enough real problems to justify a forum when by BB's statement he had issues that were resolved by posting on other threads. I certainly read and mentally recorded all the folks who appeared not to care about beekeeping customer complaints and contributed my thoughts to suppliers to help support these. I think by putting the forum out there we encourage complaints that may otherwise not rise to the level of public discredit where there not the enitcement to use the specfic forum.
Every business will run into customer problems big and small. Some will not be resolved to a customers' satisfaction. Bitterness in statements become gossip which then become fact from publication and repetition.
There are many avenues to resolve customer disputes which include dealing directly with the owner, call the BBB, complaints to various agencies who may be able to help in cases where cheating becomes criminal, losses involve the mail and finally civil court. Is this, especially in light of the heated debates and hard feelings we see on Tailgater, what we want for the future of Beesource.
I'm just one small voice in the crowd.
[size="1"][ December 19, 2006, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Joel ][/size]
>I think this issue was discussed in detail last fall and decided against for obvious reasons.
I remember that thread too, there were those that thought it was a good idea and those that thought it was not. There are no decisions made here by concensus, this is a monarchy, Barry makes all decisions as to what he does with his bulletin board. He asked me to moderate it and I agreed to do it to the best of my ability.
There is free speach here within the boundries of the Usere Agreement, we all need to review it from time to time. We have the freedom to speak of our experiances here, but we will not stand for trashing a business without good cause.
>Do we have enough real problems to justify a forum when by BB's statement he had issues that were resolved by posting on other threads.
Do we have enough time to read every post in every forum? I don't. I skip over a lot of the same old basic questions and miss out on a lot of conversations that go off topic. It is much better to have the forum arranged like a library for easier reference to the information that you are looking for.
>I think by putting the forum out there we encourage complaints that may otherwise not rise to the level of public discredit where there not the enitcement to use the specfic forum.
We also hear about the good business practices.
>There are many avenues ,,,
There are, and after you have tried all that you can think of and you get nowhere, you need to vent and seek advise. That is the value of Beesource, a place to meet like minded people and the sharing of ideas. We get help here and we return the favor by giving help when we can.
As to the future of Beesource, that is in Barry's hands.
Bjorn, I agree.
Joel, I agree.
BB, I agree.
BB is going to have his hands full moderating this forum and keeping it from going astray and becoming a bee-itch session. I do wish him success, as I think it can serve a very useful purpose if we knuckleheads will use it for it's intended purpose only.
Your just too agreeable :rolleyes: , how ya gonna get anything started being so darn agreeable :confused: :rolleyes: .
For a fair consumer report shouldn't there be some sort of standardization? Independent testing by a neutral party? Look at how the real Consumer Reports does it, much more useful to all that way.
I'll test it, i'll test it.... well wait a miniute...depends on what yer testing :D .
I'll test it, i'll test it....
Ya'll better behave, I'm taking a business trip to Orlando and won't be back till early next week. ;)
Bjorn and I will keep an eye on things while yer gone, have a good trip! Could you PM us your phone number just in case? :D