I do not use a suit when I work my bees due to feeling it makes me clumsy, and and more likely to get stung. I only have 4 hives so unlike commercial beekeeps I can do this. I do not have any reaction to being stung except when I am stung on my finger tips. Then it is extremely painful and I end up with bruise like pain for several days, otherwise I have had 5 + stings on my body and did'nt feel a thing except initial prick.
I allways carry an Epipen with me. Don't want to find out I am suddenly allergic a couple miles from help.
Bob, I tinker with snakes and bees. Whether old fashioned or new fangled ways, I hope you do something if I ever have an emergency in your presence. I, like you, believe "save a life, then look at the details later". I just wonder if you could be depended on if I were snake bitten on the buttock and all you had was a razorblade, and no vacuum kit. :D :D :D :D
The last sting I got (about 30 minutes ago in honey processing area) hurt like the first I got as a child.
A hobby beekeeper should try to get as few stings as possible.
Without swelling the sting is not a big deal. Five minutes and the sting is gone.With swelling a big deal like in notaclues case.
At times the commercial beekeeper has to take stings to get the job done. Although hurts like notaclue says it is not a big deal to me as my eyes are not going to close or my arm swell up.
I can go into town and look normal even with stings to the face.
Many hobby beekeepers may think I am pulling your leg but what full immunity is all about.
If the sting hurt for hours or days I think many commercial beekeepers might leave the craft.
Full imunity to stings is real!
Mine now lasts all winter which amazes me. was not always so as I used to swell a bit in March if I had not been stung for a few months.
All my help try to avoid bee stings! My wife prides herself on only getting a few stings after all the years around a bee farm. Her arthritis is starting to really bother her these days. I have got zero arthritis.
The bottlers (part time) swell if stung (very rare but bees are drawn to bottles of honey and sting when mashed). My beekeeper helpers swell at times but not this far into the season usually.
I take double or triple the stings of my beekeeping helpers because I wear clothing which is comfortable and cool in hot weather (bug baffler) and many times no gloves.
My helpers wear full suits, gloves and duck tape all entrances. Sweat pours off them. Their deoderant fails at times. They are miserable in 100F. heat but take few stings.
Takes a while for those guys to get ready to approach the bees. I usually listen to the radio while they prepare to face the bees! Some want to ride to the next yard in full gear to save having to get dressed again.
I believe I am the exception rather than the rule for beekeepers but have met others like me which would rather take a few stings than put on all that gear.
I almost always wear a veil to protect eyes. I wear gloves when I am doing work that involves mashing a few bees with hands like removing supers or moving hives.
Hows the rest of that go..."Doc says ur gonna die"
:D :D :D :D
Having now been stung many times while trying to deal with these AHB's I have made some observations.
The stings that I get through my gloves are quite painful but only for about a minute or two.
The ones I've gotten on my face, ears back of hands etc.. on unprotected skin swell up, the hand stings through the glove have no swell at all, but, the initial pain is the same.
One other observation....I look like a lopsided dumbo with this swollen ear and I am sick of my AHB's...any body want a hive?
Gregory, Even the old ones can be recycled with each generation. :D
On the serious side, Bob is right about complete imunity, only I was lucky enough to be born with it. Never had to build it up. I have gotten uncountable stings for days in a row, and never more then a three inch wide, one inch high swell. Normally, 20 to 30 stings, I may be able to find 2 or 3 five minutes later.
I don't think hawk meant don't do a tracheotomy, just do it his way. If the situation occurs I'm sure he'd talk you through it! Hawk, send me a private message for a web site with a picture if you have one.
I don't think the thread should end without mentioning liquid Benadryl. Antihystamines do help. I keep a bottle. My adult son got stung by a hornet a few years ago and went into shock. He had time to call the ambulance and run riot through the medecine cabinet. He found 2 lonely, dusty benadryl and took them. The ER doc said they may have saved his life.
I believe you are right. when I get time I will look up his method. Hope and pray the situation never comes up!
Benadryl helps most people. I keep Benadryl in the honey processing area for employees.
Some beekeepers like benadryl and others a shot of 100 proof Yukon Jack to ease the pain!
Doesn't have to be a PM. Here.
Only contraindication is if you can get an endotracheal tube in. And If done right, zero negative side effects. Cool, Huh?
I will ask my Doctor (also close friend) to show me the newer procedure. Thanks!
I have no training or experience but have been told about this many years ago. Still I think I would have done it this way. I take it to mean (in english) "go through the tissue just below the Adams apple." Sorry about the ladies in my ambulance and I'm a little sorry for the men are relying on me too.
But seriously. All this assumes that shock will go away if air is available. What is the mechanism that closes the throat. Swelling of the veins/arteries in the throat? Having done this how much time does it give you? Should I carry an airway instead of a scalpel?
I almost always work my bees alone, and even tho I have only had minor reactions ( itching and minor swelling) I keep an Epipen auto injector and a cell phone with in easy reach. This spring when I was grumbling at the drug store about the cost of Epipen, the lady taking my money asked how much was it worth to breath? Last May our dog decided to catch some honeybees at the pond on our property and got stung. About 10 minutes she swelled up and looked like she had lumps poking thru her fur. And started to act quiet strange we rushed her to the vet where he gave her a couple of shots and she was back to normal in a few minutes. The dog was only about six months old at the time. Now when a bee gets to close she takes off for the house.
One thing I do notice the first couple of stings I get in the spring react more than later in the season, seem my immune system builds up after a few stings. But if I were redhawknc1 I would make sure I didnÂ’t get stung at all.
I am not sure any of us can answer your questions.
I suspect many MD's have only performed the procedure on a cadavor in med school. The procedure is for sure the last attempt to save a life.
I have never done the procedure but have talked to two beekeepers which have said they did. I believe my mentor but not sure about the other person.
I have got a friend which works in a ER. He says all anaphylaxis is not the same but he has seen plenty in his around thirty years in the ER. I will pass on some of his comments and perhaps others on the list working in similar situations such as ER or an emt might add their observations.
Normally the throat closes slowly *but not always*. Almost always other symptoms indicating anaphylaxis are present. One and sometimes more than one injections of epinephrine have solved the problem. he has seen other drugs also used.He has not seen a trac or the newer procedure done on his shift.
He says recovery from the closing throat is fast with epinephrine! He says once the shot is given and the symptoms are gone the person might be observed for awhile but most go home in an hour or two aand are not even kept overnight.
I had called my vet after my animal problem and he said the crisis was over and he did not need to make a farm call.
The worker for the Zoo did not even contact a doctor after his anaphylaxis.
I am no doctor and what I have said is what has been told to me for our discussion. As posted by the information by the MD. The procedure is life saving.
Can be done in seconds with the knowledge of cut placement and a large McDonalds milk shake straw if one has a sharp knife and a steady hand. The hard part is the person getting the procedure needs to remain calm and concentrate on breathing through the straw. Both the people that told me they had done the procedure said not to move the person until the danger of the throat closing was over.
All I know!
A tracheotomy would almost never be performed in an emergency room, as an endotracheal tube, a laryngoscope and an self-inflating rebreathing bag are always available. Personally, I would have no qualms about suing anyone who performed a tracheotomy when they had the means to intubate. A tracheotomy is a battlefield procedure and is best left on the battlefield.
"A tracheotomy is a battlefield procedure"
Again I agree!
The one time I know for sure the procedure was done (my mentor that has been dead now almost forty years performed) in a remote bee yard on his best friend to save his life. The beekeeper lived another 20 years I have been told but did have a scar and two stitch marks. My mentor and the doctor that put the stiches in said they both believe the person would have died without the procedure.
Being sued does not bother me. Has been done before. They did not get a dime and had to pay their own lawyers fees in the last case. Being awarded the money and collecting the money are two different issues. Easy to rearrange assets over the several years it takes for a lawsuit to be over.
My partner (and best friend Glenn Davis owner of Bell Hill Honey) do many beekeeping operations together. Hives into California, Texas and other states. Pollination contracts together. many times we are alone in huge thousand acre orchards in remote places. Not a clue as to the location of the nearest hospital.
Glenn as I said before was a policeman for 17 years. Trained in EMT lifesaving. Trained in doing a trac if needed with say a head gunshot wound.
Myself I would not give a second thought to Glenn doing a trac on me in a *life or death* situation. Might be his first trac but the alternative is to watch me die. I would rather die with my best friend trying to save my life as riding in a bee truck to parts unknown to find an ER . Or worse yet sitting in an ER waiting room filling out insurance papers!
A couple inch trach scar would not even be worth talking about in the circles I travel in. I have got hundreds of stitches in my body. I have also been shot once and cut with a knife more than once.have had many broken bones and surgeries. I was left for dead once but crawled in my car and drove myself to the hospital. Most my injuries were related to my other than beekeeping job and my lifestyle years ago!
Didn't really plan on getting this deep into it. I am an EMT and if I have to do this procedure, I will lose my Certification. It's only done after the patients airway is swelled shut, to closed to get air through. And too tightly closed to get an ET tube in.
In that case, the patient cannot breathe and will soon be dead. What's the down side? If your ambulance is less that five minutes away, or your hospital is less than five minutes away, don't do it. I am my ambulance and the hospital is 90 minutes away. Still I try to find out an ETA for the Chopper. Let the flight Nurse do it if they're close enough.
Don't cut the horizontal bands going around the Adam's apple. Your patient will need the voice box to speak.
Good advice! Thanks!
The procedure would be best discussed privately rather on a public list.
As I said I only know of one verified case done by a beekeeper.
knowledge in the right hands is powerful. In the wrong hands is dangerous.
I speak from seeing anaphylaxis three times. One died and two were saved by me with epinephrine.
I am sure my friend Hawk has seen cases also.
The air tube down the throught works if done fast enough.
Another time I had another animal twist a rope around its neck and went down. Lots of people were on my farm and the *kids* walking the animal had tied the animal to a tree and the animal had the rope twisted around his neck. They gave out a holler and my self and a medical doctor (visitor) came running I quickly cut a section of garden hose to run down his throat for CPR. The doctor was not quite sure what to do! We both took turns giving the animal CPR through the hose but he was gone. Most expensive animal on the place.
A vet if you is lucky thirty minutes away from me.
Living in a remote area if similar to battlefield conditions.
I understand that an Epipen needs a prescription. Do you have to show symptoms of an allergic reaction to get one? I am not allergic but wouldn't mind having one at the house in case someone visiting got stung and needed help. I also live 30min from a hospital and that would be too late. Can you just ask your doctor for one?
Most MD's will prescribe it provided they think you understand why and how to use the epipen. They're mostly just worried about you jabbing someone with a pre-existing heart arrythmia.
I believe your family doctor would if you explain you keep bees. The last I bought cost $27 and was good for three years. The drawback is epinephrine needs to be stored at 59F. to 86F. Tenps effect shelf life.
My animal epinephrine says to store in the frig with other vet meds I use. I do take one or the other with me most trips to the bees but do not leave in the truck at the end of the day.
THE DIRECTIONS SHOW THE INJECTION AREA TO BE THE THIGH.
THEN MASSAGE THE INJECTION AREA FOR 10 SECONDS
I would not use unless the person is feeling his/her throat close. If slowly you might take the epipen and head for an ER.
Early signs of anaphylaxis (other than problems breathing) include flushing, itching under arms and hives.
Swelling is considered normal although many people that have been stung by an insect and have had swelling tell the world the are alergic to stings.