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Taktic

100K views 116 replies 42 participants last post by  Eduardo Gomes 
#1 ·
Anyone ever use or hear of TAKTIC to be used on bees for mite control?
 
#57 ·
Amitraz. The recommended dosage for use on honey bee colonies is. . . -BEES4U
You're missing the point, Ernie. Amitraz is illegal for use in bee hives. Therefore, there is no "recommended rate." To have a label rate (a "recommended" rate), a product must be labeled for use in the manner you wish to use it. Since amitraz is not labeled for use in bee hives, there is no "recommended rate."

What is the "recommended rate" for chlordane in basements? What about the "recommended rate" for DDT on humans to control lice?

While those products may "work," they are not legal to use for those purposes. Therefore, no labeled application rate is "recommended."

Same goes for amitraz in bee hives. Suggesting that a "recommended rate" exists implies that amitraz can be used legally in bee hives. It cannot.
 
#58 ·
from randy olivers website


The downside of amitraz is that it is somewhat more toxic to bees than fluvalinate, and shuts down the queen’s egglaying during treatment (Henderson 1998; pers comms). This is not surprising, since Bloomquist (1996) states, “Amidines cause an overstimulation of octopaminergic synapses in insects, resulting in tremors, convulsions, and continuous flight behavior in adult insects. Moreover, these compounds have the ability to cause a true anorexia in insects and also suppress reproduction.”

The upside to amitraz is that it degrades quickly in honey and beeswax (Fries, et al 1998), and therefore leaves virtually no residues (although one of its metabolites, DMF, is quite stable, and is a common contaminant of European honey (Shroeder, et al 2004)). Vesely, et al (2004) analyzed beeswax in the Czech Republic for amitraz and its degradation products. They concluded “these quantities do not present amitraz as hygienic risk for bees and for humans even after 20 years of its systematic application.”

I’ve spent some time trying to find any reason not to reregister amitraz as a varroacide in the U.S. I’m not a big synthetic chemical fan, but I think that amitraz deserves a second look. It works well against the mite, appears slow to promote resistance, doesn’t appear to contaminate honey or wax to any extent, and is relatively nontoxic to humans and bees.
 
#60 ·
What about the "recommended rate" for DDT on humans to control lice?

Here is some reading for an evening.
I am not trying to stir up a controversy.

I am very aware of the regulations and the miss use of registered chemicals.

What is the "recommended rate" for chlordane in basements?

What about the "recommended rate" for DDT on humans to control lice?


http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/urban/human_lice.htm

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Fall02/Mosquitoes.html
During the war in Europe, in 1944, we went to sleep every night while being fed upon by bedbugs and fleas, and there was no way to escape them. We had heard about “cooties” (body lice) causing typhus, which killed more than 3 million people in Europe and vicinity during and after World War I.
One day, I was ordered to dust every soldier in our company with an insecticidal powder that had just been received. For two weeks I dusted the insecticide on soldiers and civilians, breathing the fog of white dust for several hours each day. The body lice were killed, and the DDT persisted long enough to kill young lice when they emerged from the eggs.

Fortunately, no human beings have ever been harmed by DDT. I later learned that the material was produced by a German chemist, Othmar Zeidler, in 1874. He had made hundreds of chemical compounds but he never suggested uses for any of them. Sixty years later, in Switzerland in 1939, Dr. Paul Müller was seeking chemicals that might kill insect pests, and he followed Zeidler’s written directions for preparing several compounds. One of them was a compound that Zeidler had labeled dichlorodiphenyl-trichloroethane. Müller called it “DDT,” and in 1948, he received the Nobel Prize for his work with that chemical.

Regards,
Ernie
 
#61 ·
On DDT, when I was in Madison an entomologist told us that one of his elderly colleagues used to eat DDT powder on crackers at their office parties.

He ended his story with "He's now over 80 and I STILL can't beat him at raquetball." He said the ban was largely because of bio-accumulation and declining effectiveness.
 
#62 ·
From what entomologists tell me, there's plenty of "dead from cancer entomologists" to contrast this fellows story with.

DDT certainly helped save many lives and suffering, now we are even more fortunate to not have to use this chemical any more due to developed alternatives and an understanding of the negative impacts of DDT.

There's plenty of old smokers out there that for whatever reason didn't die from cancer despite decades of smoking (yet). That doesn't mean smoking does not cause cancer.
 
#63 ·
The problem I have with comments in this thread lies in the vein of, "You can't do this legally, and you shouldn't do this, so here's how to do this."

Some beekeepers have used sodium cyanide in their hives, too, so some information must exist on how much sodium cyanide effectively kills wax moths in stored honey comb, yet that doesn't make it "right" to use sodium cyanide in beehives.

Same with Taktic. Amitraz is not labelled for use in beehives. Therefore, it's illegal. Listing effective rates of amitraz applied against pests in beehives, to my way of thinking, suggests that amitraz can be used in beehives. It cannot, legally.
 
#64 ·
Listing effective rates of amitraz applied against pests in beehives, to my way of thinking, suggests that amitraz can be used in beehives. It cannot, legally.
I think the better way to put it is:

Listing effective rates of amitraz applied against pests in beehives, suggests that amitraz can be used in beehives. It can but not legally.
 
#65 · (Edited by Moderator)
Want to mix to your own? Got your own time proven formula?

You'd better watch M. Frazier's March 8th video first. Half way through the video, toxicity of fluvalinate and the different and conflicting LD/50 ratios are discussed. And much more is known about fluvalinate than is known about amatraz.

http://www.BeeUntoOthers.com/

Sure you still want to mix it up? Save a few dollars?
Good luck. You're going to need it. And if you do, I feel sorry for your bees!

Regards
Dennis
Thank you DeKnow for the video.
 
#67 ·
I know that i am a Canadian posting on this forum.
Apivar (Amitraz) is a product that has seen emergency registration in Canada. It was aproved last fall and this spring. The emergency registration runs out on June 30,2010. However the Canadian Honey council and several of the Beekeeper ogranizations are trying to get it extended. Treatment time for the strips is 42d
Personally I have not tried it, it is costly, and i like Mite Away 2.
On the Mite Away 2, I hear that Nod is cancelling making it due to the talked about quick strips, and the registration is running out. And the makers have decided on not renewing the registration on the MA2 However, as touted these quick strips are, they have yet to make it on the market. Nod is also not registering these quick strips, figuring if there is formic on the market, why do they have to register the product.
Come this fall we Canadian Beekeepers might not have many choices for treating mites.

And on a note on the Apivar, it is a contact treatment. So, where you put it can greatly increase it's effectiveness. Some beeks had poor results with the product. Upon questioning them, it was found they used it in the fall, put it in the top brood box. In the fall, the top brood box becomes full of honey or syrup. So the product was not reaching the bees on the brood. It is recommended to put it where the bees are. And if it gets cold, they cluster or go to the bottom box and look after the brood that is left, leaving the strips up top redering them ineffective.

So, I guess my point of this post is....If it is registered in Canada, why can the Americans not get their Honey Council...what ever you call it to go to the Government and get Apivar or what ever legalized? Lobby your honey council to get it together.
 
#75 ·
Nice link liveoak interesting that they actually found more mites on hives treated with Coumaphous and copper naph. The brood viability numbers are also quite telling. It is a phenomena I have noted occasionally in the past. In treatments sometimes it seems more can be less.
 
#76 ·
I came across this Thread because I noted " Tactic" - we have no Varoa here but reading the mix of chemicals some feel they need to use to keep bees make me wonder if I would want to kep bees?
Many years ago we used a product called Tactic on cattle for ticks and fleas - it got banned. If the stuff is bad for cattle , what will it do to bees?
 
#77 ·
Apivar which is a strip similar in looks to Bayvarol is approved for use in New Zealand it's active ingredient is Amitraz we use it in Spring and use Bayvarol in Autumn.

It works perfectly and will help to slow down the spread of resistant mites by not using the same chemical in both Spring and Autumn treatments.

Anyone who uses miticides etc off label are brainless, it's a surefire way to accelerate resistance in your hives.

With commercially produced treatments the dosage is exact and the correct amount of chemical is released over the reccommended period of time the treatments are in the hives. If you start chucking chemicals on coasters and other random things you have no control of the chemical release resulting in small dosages lingering on those coasters/pads until someone takes them out.

The perfect recipe for encouraging resistance
 
#78 ·
Amitraz is on the trash heap of chems that were tried, worked by killing mites but harmed the bees. Let us all not repeat the past. There are newer softer chems on the market now that have great potential. Chems that I do not have to worry about poisoning some people with. I have not heard of anyone being poisoned by hops unless consumed in huge quantities which results in alcohol poisoning. Thyme also, most people have gargeled at one time or another with listerine. Amitraz failed do to too many unknowns about it effectivness. I was part of the mitacure class action lawsuit. TED Kretschmann
 
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