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PLANTING FOR BEES

84K views 243 replies 62 participants last post by  BULLSEYE BILL 
#1 ·
I have read that plantings for bee forage is not generaly a profitable endevor.
OK, so this is a hobby.
I have ten acres of crop land left that was not put into CRP and would like to put it into use for the bees.
My area is just west of the Flint Hills in eastern central Kansas. Main crops in this area are wheat, milo, soybeans, corn and sorgum. Alfalfa and clover do quite well here, I do not know if canola would.
I know that the clovers will bloom at different times and there is some overlap, I do not know in which order they bloom. I have thought of sowing a mix of white, yellow, and red with alfalfa, however it may be better to strip sow them seperatly in hope of cutting them to possibly entice a second bloom.
I have quite a few questions and would like anyones input on how they would or have done this.
Some terms that I have read and do not know are the names; sainfoin, trefoil, and trifolium clovers. What are these?
The local co-op listed both red and crimson clover, is one better for bees than the other? Another that I had not know of is hubam.
And lastly, does anyone know of a source for goldenrod seed?
Any help would be appreciated.
Bill
 
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#102 ·
The hybred popular are a thing you do not want. Those things send shoots up everywhere from the roots. It is a hybred between silver popular and lumbardy popular. The tulip popular or yellow as it is called when talking logs is a good yielder. Silver and lumbardy are grown from cuttings or those shoots that the silver produces. The hybreds we planted for cuttings got to 30 feet in 4 years. It send out enough shoots the second year that we had no need to take cutting. We cut the trees down about 6 years ago and we are still digging shoots out.
 
#103 ·
>One question, do bees work the honey locust with the long spikes? We have determined that they do work the black locust (with small thorns), but how about the other?

I took a long look last weekend at our black locust and found that I was mistaken, there are no thorns on it as I thought I had seen before.

Sorry if I confused anyone.

Bill
 
#106 ·
I didn't read all the posts. Has anyone mentioned the Chinese Tallow Tree? It is a great source of nectur here in Georgia. I had a couple in my yard and have raised ~100 seedlings to plant on some land. It grows quickly, so you could have an estabilished grove in ~3 to 4 years. Be prepared to cut underneath the trees though, if not they will take over.

Best of luck
Mark
 
#107 ·
Chellesbees;

I, too, have had absolutely no luck propagating Black Locust seeds. I've tried stratifying, scarifying, and attempted geminating in light and dark, heated soil but no good. I however as you mentioned, have had luck transplanting the small trees that grow from the mother tree. Bee aware that these young trees do not grow from seed but from VERY long underground "rootlings" sent out from the mother tree. These thin to medium rootlings are fairly near the surface (I've found usually less than 4"). These rootlings grow as far away as 100 feet from the mother tree (from my observations). It helps when digging up a small sapling to get as much of the connecting rootling on either side of it as is feasable. This will increase the survival rate of the saplings.

Bill, the Black Locust DOES have thorns (>1")on the new growth wood but not on the old. I guess they evetually fall off.

Thanx.
 
#108 ·
Black locust have the thorns on both sides of the leaf structure. Next time a limb falls out of it look it over. The next year when a limb grows where the leaf was before it pushes the thorn off. Yes you can stick limbs in the soil and keep the soil damp and that fall those that root can be transplanted. Grow them one season where you want them then cut them off about 3 inches above the soil in the spring before they start leaving out. Select one of the shoot that sprout from the stump and train it up straight. We do this because the limb is so crooked and hardened off. We get good staight trees for your yard this way.
 
#109 ·
>Bill, the Black Locust DOES have thorns (>1")on the new growth wood but not on the old. I guess they evetually fall off.

>Black locust have the thorns on both sides of the leaf structure. Next time a limb falls out of it look it over. The next year when a limb grows where the leaf was before it pushes the thorn off.


Thanks for clearing up the mystery guys, I thought they had em'. I'll be transplanting some next spring into a protected area.

Bill

Thanx.
 
#111 ·
We have a lot of russian olive in this area. They produce an olive with very little flesh. The magpies eat them during the winter then spread them all over, infact we consider them weeds, nasty thorns but in the spring they have a lot of small fragrant flowers which the bees love. These trees bloom toward the end of the dandylions. I would be happy to collect some seeds if anyone would be interested. I have a few seedlings that I could dig up and send. I don't think you have magpies in the midwest or east coast so you shoulden't have the problem that we have.

Best wishes,
Earl White
 
#112 ·
You guys/gals are valued by me. I have been spending time in the other forums. As to the Russian olives, many different birds eat them. When the Black birds/starlings migrate south they fill ours if we have not picked them clean. Pigeons also eat them later in the year when food gets hard to find. The bees do love them. So with me it is how many thousand do you not want. I dug up over a hundred this spring. They do have thorns but not many. We do not use protect from them when we pick the seeds. If you want some sent your way just ask I just have to warn you how they can take over.
 
#114 ·
Is russian olive the same as autumn olive or is the russian a slightly larger tree versus a bush? I think autumn olive was originally brought from russia as a plant to provide forage for critters. It was widely used around here by the department of natural resources. They gave up on it years ago as it is highly invasive and doesnt provide anywhere near the nutrional resources as some other native plants. One positive is that it does make a bunch of honey......honey which is water white but taste like sh**!!!
 
#115 ·
They are one and the same to a point. It is like calling apple trees the same. Autum Olive is a silver leaf cultivar. They are the russian olives we have. About 15 years ago NC highway department was buying them by the millions. They can take alot of abuse and air pollution and thrive. If it was not for them self seeding everywhere they would be great plants.
 
#116 ·
Years back I bought through the County Extension Service packages of plants that the State of Kansas was selling for windbreaks and wildlife shelters.

There were olives (silver with no thorns), sandplums, cottoneaster, dogwood, and more that I can not remember now. They also sold White and Austrian Pines, pecan, Western Redcedar, and other trees for windbreaks.

You might want to check with your local extension office and see if you have any programs available to you.

Bill
 
#117 ·
Hi Folks,
Can anyone tell me why Black Locust only blooms sometimes?
It has been four years since the ones on my place have bloomed. The year before,the bloom was so heavy that the limbs drooped.

Yellow Popler and Locust are our main sources for honey here in the mountains of NC. We have some Sourwood later.

As for Black Locust,if you get a thorn stuck in your skin,a small tip usually breaks off and if you don't get it out,within 4 hrs. you will see blood poisoning start to set in. This is from personal experiance.

Kindest regards,
Jack
 
#118 ·
I've always figured that the sap is poisonious on the black locust thorns. Because when I get stuck on an old one I don't have a problem but a stick from a fresh thorn from the tree always swells up badly. It doesn't act like an infection (blood poisoning), but rather like actual poison.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited November 22, 2003).]
 
#119 ·
John B.;

I noticed the same thing, B. Locust not blooming or not blooming with the same intensity year after year. In June of '02, I got an answer to this from a researcher on our Eastern Shore in Maryland. His response and contact info is shown with his answer:

"Black Locust is one of those trees that blooms in abundance every other year, similar to apples.

Michael S. Embrey
Eastern Shore Apiary Program
Dept. of Entomology (WREC)
P.O.Box 169, 124 Wye Narrows Drive
Queenstown Md. 21658
Phone (410)-827-8056, Mobile (410)-924-0028
Fax (410)-827-9039
E-mail: me15@umail.umd.edu"


For us in Maryland, the "off" year was '02 which means that '03 was an "on" year. However, with so much wind and rain last spring, I can't swear to it from my observations.

Hope this helps.
 
#121 ·
I was wondering what if anything was planted for bees by the guys/gals of the forum. I have got some ***** willow that I am going to plant behind where my new hives are going. In time they will give noon time shade to the hives. ***** willows are a great source of early pollen to help build those collonies up.
JC
 
#123 ·
Hillbilly,
I have a Saphire Dragon tree in my front yard that is going on four years old. It is the most unusual tree I have ever grown.

The first year it grew 12 ft with no branches and leaves that measured up to 36 inches across. The third year it bloomed with the most beautiful purple and yellow flower clusters.

I was doing a search on the tree, it's a paulownia (oops sp?) The article stated that it was a honey producer as well as many other great aspects of the variety. They were trumphing it up a lot.

My question is do you know of any other information relating it to honey producing?

Thanks, Bill
 
#125 ·
They are also called a cucumber tree. The wood is alot like balsa and used to make RC model airplanes. Most of the logs are sold to the netherlands to make those wooden shoes. But it is another large family of trees. I do not know if the ones in the mountains around here is a native or not but they grow wild here.
 
#126 ·
i've seen them spread on their own pretty easily.i remember the first time i saw one,i was hiking along in the woods when i came upon this huge fairy tale tree with big purple flowers,it looked too strange to be true.i've found a feral patch near me,if anyone is interested ,we could dig a few up this spring.
 
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