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Starving singles in 2009 Almonds

27K views 75 replies 30 participants last post by  JohnK and Sheri 
#1 ·
:lookout: :lookout: :lookout:


For all you out of state'rs who brought bees in to the almonds and went back home with your annual paycheck: Get some rubber boots on your feet and a syrup bucket in your hand.


2/11/09


The weather forcast (Northern California) for the next ten days looks like the end of the bloom in 06. If you have strong singles or bees without much feed on them they will be starving before the end of the bloom unless the weather breaks. Snow down to 1500 feet tommorow with the highs only forecast in the 50's for the next ten days. Good luck !!!!!!!!!
 
#4 ·
Follow the money trail. I am sure someone is getting a kickback on these Aussie bees. Can't you Calf. beeks get together and partition to keep these bees out of the state? For that matter it seems like a good thing to be brought up in the next Annual American Honey Producers Assoc. meeting. We need a lobby of beeks and beek friendly organizations to start working harder on keeping the tainted Chinese and other imported honey out and out of country bees as well.

I was going to say that the National Honey Board should be working on these, but one of the board members is too busy mixing in tainted Chinese honey into American honey to be worried about American Beeks interest.
 
#5 ·
Looks like its gonna be a real wet month.Time to make a sugar run today and get ready to slog out into the wet orchards.There will always be some that can use some feed.
If unable to drive to them with syrup,keep in mind that a backpack with 50 lbs of dry sugar and a pan dipper will keep them alive in an emergency situation.:(
 
#6 ·
National honey board annoucement

We regret to inform you that we will no longer be producing regular monthly BeeMail issues. You are welcome to use the "unsubscribe" link below to remove yourself from our e-mail list.
We have also moved our head office to Bejing , so our directors do not have so far to travel
 
#9 ·
I for one beekeeper like being able to get Aussie packages if I need to. Has only happened once but saved our almond contracts and we were very happy with the bees.

Aussie packages have been a valuable tool to a few beekeepers doing almonds. Little value when U.S. package and queen producers are up an running.

Like all tools demand drops when need drops. One Aussie supplier told me he sent a fifth of the packages in this season as he did the last few years.

Aussie packages went into Canada without problems for over two decades. IAPV has been in the U.S. for years and did not come first from the Aussie import ( like our so called experts said) and there is absolutely no proof IAPV is an issue in a bee with a strong immune system.
 
#11 ·
Welcome aboard Missoura. I'm glad your experience with Assie bees has been better than mine. I bought a couple hundred queens two years ago to try and they were a complete failure. Started off gangbusters but then 90% got the worst chalk I've ever seen. Most didn't make into winter their fist year. Lots of Nosema too.

Anyway, back on topic. I'm heading out next week to feed my light hives. One more trip to California.....Ugh!!!!
 
#12 ·
I'm not sure that the Australian imports into Canada have been 'trouble free'.

"Kashmir Bee Virus (KBV) was diagnosed in the Fraser Valley in the spring of 2004, in a commercial operation whose honeybee colonies had declined and subsequently died. It has also been recently found in colonies that appear healthy.

The virus had previously been diagnosed in British Columbia in the early 1980s, in honeybee stock originally imported from Australia and New Zealand. At that time, well before the Varroa mite arrived, no symptoms had been observed and therefore, KBV was not a concern. "
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/230_kashmir.htm
 
#13 ·
Although this is off topic about the cold weather and the rain I would hardily disagree that the Aussie queens are horrendous when it comes to chalk brood for sure and possibly some unknown things also. Over ten thousand of the AU packages went in within 20 miles of me the past month and all I can say is I'm glad my mating yards for queens are far away enough from where they jump to after the Almonds. These Aussie queens have no "experience" in their genetics with the mites all the other junk we've been dealing with and don't survive the winter as a result. In the long run I don't think their DRONES will be helpful in our battle with the mites etal. They are great for saving your *** if all your bees die in the winter but aren't part of the long term solution we need. Unless you requeen them ASAP they will do you no good in the long run. One of the big beeks by me who has purchesed nearly 10k of them the last three years has continued to have some of the biggest losses around.

How many US beeks that have hives unrented in the Almonds or recieved a crumby price because of the AU packages are happy they are here?

The only thing I can say positive about them is that if they are the only thing holding back the Canadian and Mexican hives from promenading into the Almonds at any time in the future I'm all for them. For those who are working on keeping them out please remember there are possible ramifications to doing so. The Almond growers have a whole lot more political clout than we do. You might get something worse than the problems we have now!!!!!! :lookout:
 
#14 ·
I was told by a reliable source that the almond board wrote a letter stating that they no longer felt aussie pkgs were needed. Along with AHPA, ABF and PAm.
My experience with them was not good lots of chalk brood and never made much honey. Short term solution to a long term problem.
 
#16 ·
I'd have to agree with Nick On the Aussie pacs. Better than nothing but not by much. They must be requeened otherwise unlikely they will be around 12 months later. Lots of chalkbrood, kinda defensive bees, don't produce lots of honey. If they are split then the queenless unit will lose so many adult bees, they fly off and commit suicide. This has been my experience with 2 of the 3 main suppliers. I realize not all suppliers are equal. Judging by the reports looks like some things never change. So in my opinion too say that those bees have been problem free for the Canadians is a bit of a stretch.

One huge difference between the U.S. and Canadian market was the freight. The U.S. bees go from Sydney to the States non stop. The bees destined for Canada would go thru Hong Kong. So they would get off the plane sit on the tarmac then eventually go in cold storage then embark on the flight to Vancouver about 22 hours later. This was the biggest risk in the whole deal. Leaving a pallet of bees to the airport folks in Hong Kon. It's hot at that time of the year. Lots of loads got damaged that way. Someone forgot to do their job at the airport. That was a hard learning curve for the airport folks, it came at the expense of the suppliers. The airport folks kinda figured it out but every year at least one pallet would get damaged on the way to Canada.

Jean-Marc
 
#17 ·
Second the posts 13 & 14. If we can get the imports halted it will take a few years to undo the damage. Mites virus and chalk will cull the most susceptible, but the hybrids with our heartier local stock may be another story. There may be a few good traits to be had, but at what price?

The market affects associated with long term drought in the forecast plus the risk from T. clariae and A. cerana make imports more problematic and dangerous than ever.
 
#21 ·
C and M bees in the Almonds

When the border got closed to US packages alot of guys here took a huge hit on their gross as the almonds weren't priced that high. If I remember right the price was probably was in the $25-30 range when it happened. Right now I think most of us who sell packages can pretty well get rid of everything we can produce at a fair price. If the border opened up next week for bees going both ways I don't think that it would do us beeks in California any good on the margins. Right now I think wee'd be on the losing end of the deal as the price in the almonds would probably go down more than the price of packages would go up. Anything we would gain by opening up the Canadian market to packages would be a wash at the best. If some one in California disagrees with this I'd love to hear their rational. :scratch:
 
#22 ·
Honey-4-all,

The biggest boon for the California package producer was being able to raise package prices when you saw the industry would pay the higher price for the Aussie package. The next year you raised your prices.

the second biggest boon was the find of small hive beetle in Florida . At first beekeepers bought into the idea paying an extra 25-35 a package to get SHB free packages was worth the cost. Now that most California packages contain a few SHB (California package producers best kept secret) many Midwest commercial beekeepers are returning to buying packages from the south.

MABee
Many beekeepers from the Midwest which have been to almonds and returned to the Midwest brought back SHB in their operations. Many of those beekeepers hives had never been in an area known to contain SHB other than California.

This was Years before the Aussie SHB find was found.
 
#24 ·
Packages with beetles

:D

Well Missoura,

All the package prices here are set by one thing. Market demand (and costs). Some guys dump thousands of them at $40 a pop and others sell individual ones at $100.

If you can get them cheaper in the south go for it. The cost of business in Cali is higher and if the dems in the legislature get their way with the Arnold and a few Republicans in the near future you will certainly not see any prices dropping from anybody here.

As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in.

Two weeks ago there was a load of bees here from NY parked about 2 miles from me. The bees are spread all over now in the Almonds. They've been here three or four years and the beek who owns them treats for SHB I've heard. As to why I don't know unless they do have shb. Fortunately I haven't seen them in any of our hives here yet yet. I don't think they will survive our soil and climate. I may be wrong. We shake bees at a lot of other operations within a 70 mile radius in exchange for queens and straight out purchase and I've never seen one in any of the hives yet. Only in the alcohol jar at Mann Lake in Woodland. If you got beetles in packages it was likely from someone south as the soil is more conducive to their replication although I do find it unussual that the word has not gotten out that "so and so" has a big beetle problem in California. Maybe I missed it. I talk with customers all over the country; Practically every state expect Hawaii and the stories I hear about the beetles from people in the south aren't even specs on the radar in Cali.

If can't say I'm sorry for those poor souls who showed up for the almonds and got the "Clap" of SHB while doing the dance.(If they actually did) No one forced one of them to show up to the party we been tending to for a long time. I bet you a large lunch at the driveup window that it was it
an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?" :cry::cry::cry:
 
#25 ·
As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in.
The weren't invented here either.

an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?" :cry::cry::cry:
Do you believe that if California closed its borders to bees from everywhere....even other states...that the various bee plagues wouldn't ever reach you? How do you think shb found their way to the South? They came from Africa. We don't allow the importation of bees from Africa. Who do you suppose 'brought them in'?

What is it about the soil in California that you think isn't conducive to shb replication?

Dream on, friend.
 
#26 ·
Shb

Hi Bee man dan,

You are correct. You did not invent them. I'm sorry they (SHB) got to you in the first place. My point to Missoura was that we didn't drag them in here first. Maybe I shouldn't have included Georgia in my comment although I can remeber bees coming here from your state before the guys to the south of you were showing up for the dance. Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first. Minimally thats where I remeber they show up on the radar screen. Correct me if I'm wrong. Some selfish SO* sneeks in queens and/ or something else by whatever means and drags the garbage (BEE STD'S) in with them. Then we all have to deal with this garbage. Trust me I'm not happy they are here either. By you or here by me. It does none of us any good although Keith might disagree with me.

My theory on why the shb MIGHT NOT thrive here is twofold.

First. our soil has tons of clay in it. Not conducive to their geting in the ground. Our soil is like rocks in the summer and so slippery you can't drive on it after less than 5 hundreths of rain without sliding everywhere. Seems like they like sandy soil ( the kind in Modesto and much of the southeast US)

Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Almost all of our honey runs in the 13/ 14 % range while at times I've had it in the high 10"s. Lots of pounds per barrel when its that dense. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.

Let me know if you think about the theory.

h4all
 
#28 ·
Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first.
I was thinkin' that varroa were first identified in Minnesota...or somewhere up that way. AHB from Mexico into Tx and Az. Tracheal mites...who knows? IAPV....nosema ceranae? Those may even have come in over in your neighborhood. I think it'd be hard to point a finger at any single place as the source of our pestilence.
First. our soil has tons of clay in it.
They seem to do pretty well in red GA clay.
Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.
Humidity has possibilities.
Another possibility is that they haven't got their proper gentic foothold yet....once the clay tolerant, low humidity happy shb start to reproduce you'll catch up with the rest of us.
For your sake I hope not.
 
#27 ·
Shb

4 years ago I found a tennis ball sized cluster of beetle larvae in a deadout. Also saw some on drip pallets holding honey. Drenched with Gardstar around buildings and haven't seen them again. Don't the beetles require moist soil?

No secrets here regarding SHB, the valley counties conducted a survey that year and found them in some stored comb in buildings. As far as I can see though they are not here on a year round basis.
 
#29 ·
North Georgia is more red clay than anything else. What isn't clay is solid granite. South Georgia is clay and sand for the most part. Like you say, when summer comes around the clay is as hard as a brick. And we see no significant rain other than thunderstorms until winter. If our weather pattern ever returns we will get our missing rain from the hurricanes in the fall.

The beetles for the most part are all over the eastern states and seem to be progressing west. Those that say they don't have them either haven't seen them or I suspect they soon will. There has been plenty of speculation as to what these things need to survive. Sand soil is supposed to be the ticket, yet one yard I have to the southeast that has plenty of it shows fewer than my yards to the north in the clay. It has been said that they fall from the hives and reproduce and the cycle can be broken by treating the ground around the hives. Yet again I have another yard that sits on solid granite and unless they have little jackhammers in their pockets, they aren't going in the ground there and still it is by far one of my worst yards for them.

They always die off in the winter here and plenty can be seen dead around the hives around the first freeze and before the birds and whatever picks them up for food. There are almost always a few that will winter over in the clusters but get run out of the hives in the spring when build up starts. I won't see more than a spotted sampling of them anywhere until April or May and no significant numbers until June. From then on, they seem to hold their own living in the wings of the hives. If a hive fails for some reason, they are there ready to pounce. But I have never had the experience of them taking over a healthy hive. I have more problems from wax moths than I do beetles late in the season. If anything, the beetles follow behind the moths if any of them are successful at weakening a hive.

Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess ;) :)
 
#30 ·
Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess ;) :)
Ya know, the first real problems I had with shb was the year that Jamie Ellis at the beelab was running experiments with the monsters. He was growing them by the millions in one of the back rooms. I accused him of infesting my hives and he said he thought it was mine infesting his. So, if you go poking around the beelab there's no telling what you'll find or what you might take home. ;)
 
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