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JStinson
09-14-2013, 10:05 PM
I am planning on doing a round of OA vaporization tomorrow. When can I put the honey supers back on?

Andrew Dewey
09-15-2013, 04:45 AM
There is no label for using OA as a miticide in the United States as it has not been approved for such use and you will need to rely on guidance from outside the country. I hope you gets lots of answers from people who use OA in those areas.

Michael Palmer
09-15-2013, 05:14 AM
Isn't your honey flow finished for the season? If so, why would you need to put them back on.

Also, you do realize that the colony has to be brood-less for OA to be effective. I tried OA vapor for three years. First two years in November after brood rearing was finished for the year. The following summer after two years of Fall treatment I had high mite loads in May. Heillyser told me to vaporize in September...three times, seven days apart.

Took samples using alcohol wash, and treated. Seven days later treated, and seven days later treated. Seven days later I re-sampled with alcohol wash.

Mite count either stayed the same or rose. Didn't bother with OA vapor after that.

jim lyon
09-15-2013, 05:40 AM
Interesting account Mike. I have heard the "once a week for 3 weeks" mantra so often I began to accept it as fact. Given the fact that varroa may only see the light go day for a scant few hours, possibly less and that a vaporization is surely lethal to mites for far less than a week I was always left wondering how the one week time frame was ever arrived at.

GLOCK
09-15-2013, 06:09 AM
I been doing it for a little over 3 weeks I am now on my third treatment on my dbl. deeps and I have to say it seems to be working for me I have had over 3000 mite drop out of two of my hives. And the others over 1000 I even treated my nucs 1 time so far.
I'm pretty happy with OAV so far i'll see how winter goes .
I'd take the honey off unless your coming to use it in your hives.

JStinson
09-15-2013, 06:14 AM
Isn't your honey flow finished for the season? If so, why would you need to put them back on.

Also, you do realize that the colony has to be brood-less for OA to be effective. I tried OA vapor for three years. First two years in November after brood rearing was finished for the year. The following summer after two years of Fall treatment I had high mite loads in May. Heillyser told me to vaporize in September...three times, seven days apart.


Goldenrod blooms in late September here, so we might or might not get a little flow from that. Either way, there are supers on with leftover Spring honey for the bees. They have been nibbling at it and I prefer to let them eat honey rather than feed them sugar water.

I am aware that OA does not work for mites in capped cells. That's why I am planning on doing it three times, 7 days apart. I have no idea how effective it will be because I have never done it.

JStinson
09-15-2013, 06:16 AM
I'd take the honey off unless your coming to use it in your hives.

Glock, do you put them back on right after you finish the treatment (like, that day) or do you leave them off for the entire three weeks that you treat?

WLC
09-15-2013, 07:00 AM
From the studies I've read on OA treatments, it takes about 7 days for detectable OA levels to drop to low/background levels after the treatment.

That explains the 'once a week' recommendation. 3-4 weeks would catch most brood cycles in that period.

GLOCK
09-15-2013, 07:11 AM
Glock, do you put them back on right after you finish the treatment (like, that day) or do you leave them off for the entire three weeks that you treat?

I did not treat till all honey was off the hives for the year{I let my bees have the GR honey} and I did let 2 supers on with honey but I will use them to fill all the nucs that might need some honey topped off. I use all deeps.
I have read that you can leave the honey on the hive and the fat bee man says it's ok but I would not .

jim lyon
09-15-2013, 07:24 AM
From the studies I've read on OA treatments, it takes about 7 days for detectable OA levels to drop to low/background levels after the treatment.

That explains the 'once a week' recommendation. 3-4 weeks would catch most brood cycles in that period.
Perhaps you are right. I have not seen such data but if there is a well run study out there about consecutive vaporizations, whether they are once a week, or any other time frame, I would be interested in reading it. I have "trickled" a lot of bees that were full of brood in past years and though it results in a pretty good mite drop I was never convinced that the net result to the hive was a positive one. I won't pretend to have any experience with once a week vaporizations because I have never done it but I do find Mr. Palmer's experience relevant.

GLOCK
09-15-2013, 07:49 AM
Well the way I see it when it comes to beekeeping if you ask a question about treatment there will be people that are for it and says it works and then there the people that say it's no good.
I say try it for yourself and then you'll know.
I tried fogging with FGMO and that didn't not work and there where people that said it worked great and people that said it it did not. Now I know and OAV well i'll give it a year and then i'll know .
I do know one thing after treating with OAV the mite drops where a lot higher then fogging its working for me. No PMS in my bee yards.

WLC
09-15-2013, 08:10 AM
Although this study doesn't give the numbers for how long it takes for OA levels to drop, I think that it's useful.

http://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/2006/01/M6010.pdf

oldforte
09-15-2013, 09:36 AM
WLC ....Thanks for the formal study. A case that reduces the IMO's to just O's

WLC
09-15-2013, 12:09 PM
It's a review that covers quite few studies.

If by 'O's' you mean observations, you would be correct.

They're peer reviewed studies from the Scientific Literature.

The review compared OA drizzle, spray, and sublimation.

It does answer the question about any risks to honey supers when using OA, which is minimal to honey stores according to the review.

However, it does address beekeeper safety when using OA.

oldforte
09-15-2013, 05:44 PM
by O's I mean "opinions"... without any data at all

WLC
09-15-2013, 05:59 PM
There are plenty of data tables in that review. Just Ctrl + or - to flip it horizontal or back.

You could always look up the individual references if you wanted more depth.

Besides, it answers the OP's question. OA doesn't appear to be a problem for honey stores, sort of like FA.

However, I wouldn't leave supers on if I wasn't certain of the purity of the OA being used or what the potential contaminants might be.

As for your own opinion of the review, I couldn't disagree more.

oldforte
09-15-2013, 07:55 PM
by O's I mean "opinions"... without any data at all

Sorry...you missed my point.... The point I was trying to make is that the study you referred to was so in depth with so much data that it overwhelms the "in my opinion" negative comments about the efficacy of OA treatments no matter how honest they may seem.