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brazosdog02
02-12-2013, 10:47 AM
Im confused.

I see people installing crimped wire foundation and using pins.

I see people installing foundation without wires and then embedding wires horizontally.

Is it possible to embed crosswires with crimped wire foundation or is this not done or necessary?

Really confused here. How is crimped wire foundation meant to be installed? I used it but it also came with pins for the edges, however, one site im ordering from doesnt look like they offer pins, so is crimped wire foundation not supposed to have pins either?

Vance G
02-12-2013, 11:08 AM
In my opinion the crimp wired is best when used with embedded crosswires. It is pretty bulletproof if done correctly and well drawn. I have not used it with pins and would like comments on how good they work.

brazosdog02
02-12-2013, 11:09 AM
I have three deeps and two mediums with crimped wire foundation and pins. The rest are going to be mediums and I may be embedding those....so, maybe I can let you know. I live in Texas and its hot.

beeman2009
02-12-2013, 11:12 AM
brazosdog02,

I don't use wire at all, used to but now I use fishing line. Crosswire anyway you want. This is good if you need to cut cells, wire doesn't get in the way. Just my $.02. FatBeeMan has a video showing how to do it. Go to his site, dixiebeesupply dot com, follow to his youtube channell. Easy to find.

brazosdog02
02-12-2013, 11:24 AM
Read that someone had trouble with bees chewing through the foundation following the 'X' of fishing line. Ever had that problem? What pound test line? Will an 'X' on a medium super with wired foundation make it OK to put in an extractor?

beeman2009
02-12-2013, 12:20 PM
Have not had that problem. Any # test will work but I would use the heaveist that would fit through holes, I use 20#. As far as extracting goes all I have used up until this year has been wired foundation w/side or bottom pins. Never had a blowout yet. This year I am going to be converting to all foundationless frames with no wire anywhere. I want to get as much junk out of my hives as possible. I know you can't get it all, just doing the best I can.

brazosdog02
02-12-2013, 01:15 PM
Hmmm....so the prewired vertical wax foundation and then just pins in the sides worked for you and extraction with no problems?

beedeetee
02-12-2013, 02:11 PM
I have personally never horizontally wired my crimped wire foundation. I only use pins if the foundation doesn't stay in the middle of the frame when hung vertically. I have crimped wire in both medium honey supers and deep brood frames.

beeman2009
02-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Hmmm....so the prewired vertical wax foundation and then just pins in the sides worked for you and extraction with no problems?


Yeap. Been doing it that way for 5 seasons, no problems. Of course I watch my extractor speed and don't start out too fast.

brazosdog02
02-12-2013, 03:41 PM
For a new guy, the most frustrating thing I have found so far is setting up my equipment. By that I mean, there are a few ways to do it and everyone has a different opinion. It makes it hard to decide what is best. Its not unlike the winemaking community! :)

Ive absolutely loved assembling all the stuff. Its very relaxing and enjoyable. I just wish I could pick a method...any reason I shouldnt try all methods for wiring, criming, embedding, pinning? I could really do them all on a few frames and see which I like best.

NasalSponge
02-12-2013, 06:13 PM
I understand your frustration completely, too many choices. As to your question I cross wire crimped wire foundation, I cross wire foundationless, pretty much everything but I once had a deep frame that was heavy with honey and bees separate on me while using the pins and don't ever intend for that to happen again.

Jonathan4Bees
02-12-2013, 07:46 PM
the first year i did beekeeping i used pins. After talking with a guy he hooked me up with cross wiring and it is a little more time consuming but personally i like it better. Notice less mess less sag of foundation and i think last better.

psfred
02-12-2013, 09:57 PM
Pins don't do anything to fix the real problem with crimped wire foundation, which is that the wire is supplied on a spool and retains some curvature when embedded in the foundation. That results in every single frame of foundation in my hives (Kelley foundation) bowing in the heat. Sits nice and flat in the box, looks flat in the frame when installed, results in bowed comb almost every time. This is difficult to remove, makes it difficult to switch frames around, and is a general pain in the sitting part.

Embbeded cross wires keep the foundation flat when you alternate sides, keep the comb from fracturing when cold and help keep it from blowing out in the extractor. I consider wired frames to be permanent (in use for years) and just like carefully making and painting boxes, a little care and extra work putting them together properly means long life and saved money in the long run.

Cross wiring is a pain, it takes some time, but you will thank yourself every time you pull a nice, flat comb out of a hive rather than a frame that is bulged to one side and will only fit where it came out.

Peter

beedeetee
02-12-2013, 10:12 PM
I've never had an unwired crimped wire frame blow out in my extractor and I have some 20 years old. Even it they do bow a little the bees don't bow the cappings to match. Every year I cut the comb straight anyway while uncapping.

johng
02-13-2013, 08:24 AM
I have never cross wired the crimpwired mediums that I use for supers and I have never had a problem. Go slow the first time you extract them but after that they seem pretty tough.

indypartridge
02-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Add me to the list of those who have never cross-wired and haven't had problems with blowouts. I've extracted foundationless frames with no wireing at all and not had problems.