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View Full Version : My New E.0. Recipe



Mbeck
10-26-2012, 08:30 AM
4 oz lemongrass
4 oz spearmint
70 oz sugar water (3 parts sugar 1 part water)
5 tsp lecithin granules
4 oz warm water

Combine lecithin and warm water let sit for an hour.
Blend with 2 cups warm sugar water
Cool to room temp
Add oils and blend on high for one minute.
Add cool sugar water blend.

Add 1 to 2 tsp per quart of feed.

@ 2 tsp it works out to about 1 ml EO per quart

AUXCOM
10-26-2012, 08:41 AM
Hey MBECK,

Looks like you are making a variation of HBH

5 cups Water
2 1/2 pounds Sugar
1/8 tsp. Lecithin Granules (used as an emulsifier)
15 drops Spearmint Oil
15 drops Lemongrass Oil

1. Bring the water to a boil and integrate the sugar until dissolved.
2. Once the sugar is dissolved remove the mixture from the heat and quickly add the lecithin and the essential oils.
3. Stir until everything is evenly distributed. This solution should have a strong scent and not be left open around bees. Cool before using.

Makes 2 quarts.

http://www.eatingrules.com/2011/10/honey-bee-healthy/

you are using a lot of essential oils...which are expensive...might want to cut back as the bees only need a tiny bit I think.

Bobby

Mbeck
10-26-2012, 09:04 AM
It's just a little bit stronger than the recipe you gave if I mix it 2 tsp to 1 quart.


I'm not trying to promote a copy of HBH my guess is at the concentration of EO used they have a product with a good value. I did start with the oils most associated with that brand but there are too many variables to try to copy them.

westernbeekeeper
10-26-2012, 09:44 AM
Where do you purchase the lemongrass, spearmint, and lecithin?

AUXCOM
10-26-2012, 09:59 AM
I just go to a local health food store...but when I used the Lecithin granuals they had...it didn't seem to dissolve so I just left that out....and the bees don't seem to care as that is used as an imulsifier to keeps everything mixed together...I figure less crap you feed them, the better.

I get very small bottles of the essential oils and only use 3 or 4 drops of each in each batch...it only take a tiny amount for the bees to go nuts over it. Adding Apple cider helps change the Ph which is a good idea.

Bobby

Mbeck
10-26-2012, 10:05 AM
Maybe I didn't research as well as I should have.
I bought the oils form WFMED, the best price for me was on eBay.
Price seemed fine, delivery quick and quality good.
Lecithin was purchased from the cooler section of the local health food store.

Just a note.... HBH is not what I would call really expensive if you take all things into consideration.

AUXCOM
10-26-2012, 10:19 AM
I only purchased a half fluid oz bottle of the Lemongrass oil and an oz bottle of the peppermint.

I only use a few drops in each half gallon batch. If you make the H-B-H as they make it...you only have to add a little bit to each sugar batch so it goes a long ways....I don't give full strength.

I just put some out on their front entry...and within minuits they are swarming all over it. A Qt bottle.

Mbeck
10-26-2012, 10:24 AM
The granules are not easy to work with in small amount.
Tricks:
Fresh granules
Warm water
Start with small amount of water
Let granules "bloom" for a while in water
High speed blending, an immersion blender would work best for small amounts.
Blend bulk of sugar water in at end at room temp little at a time.

I would be concerned with oils separating and some bees getting a high dose of the oils or saturating hive components and leaving an strong distributive lasting scent in hive.

Maybe wiping a couple drops on feeder lid would encourage the same attraction to feed?

I'm using it to encourage a few hive to continue to take feed, produce and keep drones for as long as they will.

Robbing.... In encourages it beyond belief. I had a leaking lids spilled syrup episode last week that was insane. It was only solved when the smaller hives where reduced down to 1/4" and the stronger double deep hives had the lids popped and Brood boxes separated. Italian bees!

Mbeck
10-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Auxcom,
I'm not aware of the use of peppermint oil in beekeeping? Did you mean spearmint?

I'm not feeding this because I've seen any proof that the EO are contributing to the health of the hive directly or preventing any disease or pest. It keeps my syrup clean and encourages the bees to consume at a faster rate. Which hopefully means stronger hives if I manage them right.

I'm not a professional or experienced so I'm still not sure where I stand on its use. I'm slowly moving to the opinion it is a useful tool if used correctly. The next question is can I use it correctly?

It's an ongoing experiment.

AUXCOM
10-26-2012, 10:50 AM
oops...ment Spearmint...lol

I made my original batch as given by the H-B-H recipe on

http://www.eatingrules.com/2011/10/honey-bee-healthy/

and save a bottle of it in the fridge...and add a little each time I feed them.

But....I was looking at the bottles I used in this last batch...and see I used my wife's Peppermint!! Low and behold...maybe I have found a different recipe?....they go nuts for it. I will have to do some research on that use!!

lol
:shhhh:

AUXCOM
10-26-2012, 01:06 PM
I did some research on essential oils and here is the list I found:

Banana Though it has been unconfirmed, reports state that banana oil seems to closely mimic the alarm pheromone of honeybees. Because of this it is advised against using banana oil, or other strong banana scented products near or around hives. It is unclear wheatear bananas can be safely eaten near honey bees, but it is likely that no adverse result would be seen.

Lemon Grass Lemongrass works conveniently as well as the pheromone created by the honeybee's nasonov gland, also known as attractant pheromone. Because of this lemon grass oil can be used as a lure when trapping swarms or attempting to draw the attention of hived bees. Be warned, however, that lemon grass oil can cause a robbing behavior if it is used within or on a weak hive.

Peppermint Peppermint oil is used as a general-purpose pheromone masking scent. It does not apparently mimic any known bee pheromones and is simply used to mask others. In theory any other strong scented essential oil would work the same.

Spearmint Spearmint oil is often used in conjunction with lemon grass oil during feeding to improve hive health and work as a recruiting scent. Spearmint and Lemon Grass Spearmint oil and lemon grass oil are two essential oils that are commonly used in conjunction to complete many tasks with bees. A simple general purpose essential oil mixture can be used for many things, including avoiding the reliance on smoke when opening hives.

Tea Tree Tea Tree oil is often used in grease patties for control of mites. It seems as if Tea Tree oil can be interchanged with wintergreen oil with no loss of effectiveness.

Wintergreen Wintergreen oil is often used in grease patties for control of mites. It seems as if Tea Tree oil can be interchanged with wintergreen oil with no loss of effectiveness.

Found this at: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Guide_to_Essential_Oils

deknow
10-26-2012, 01:36 PM
I would strongly suggest removing the heat before adding the sugar. HMF is toxic to bees, and is formed from heating sugar.

Deknow

snl
10-26-2012, 01:43 PM
I did some research on essential oils and here is the list I found:

Banana Though it has been unconfirmed, reports state that banana oil seems to closely mimic the alarm pheromone of honeybees. Because of this it is advised against using banana oil, or other strong banana scented products near or around hives. It is unclear whether bananas can be safely eaten near honey bees, but it is likely that no adverse result would be seen.

Tried eating and holding a banana right in front of the hive once just to see...........no ill effects........ I thinks it's a "wives tale."

Mbeck
10-27-2012, 09:48 AM
The banana smell rumor also seems false in my experience.

Mbeck
01-25-2013, 05:18 PM
I've made a couple batches now and 7 tsp of lecithin granules per batch seems to work the best.
It's also impossible to pour EO without spilling them!

WBVC
04-25-2013, 09:14 AM
I have recently found that lethicin capsules work great...just snip open the capsule and add the liquid contents. If you add the essential oils to very hot water you risk them evaporating off. If you are adding your mixture to syrup then I really don't see the need for sugar in the recipe. I know it is in Pro Health etc...perhaps for shelf stability. If you add the contents of 1 lethicin capsule and give the mix a whirl in a blender it remains emulsified for ages. I am new to this so don't know what essential oil mix is best. Have seen recipes with lemon grass and spearmint, others with teatree plus eucalyptus, wintergreen etc.

cerezha
04-25-2013, 01:02 PM
.......I was looking at the bottles I used in this last batch...and see I used my wife's Peppermint!! ... I believe that active ingredient of both oils in question is menthol. They should work similarly. But bees have very good sense of smell. May be they feel the difference?

Luv2beekeep
04-25-2013, 02:29 PM
This is the first year I have used essential oils and they seem to work. My bees look healthier than they have ever looked. They also consume it like it is going out of style. I use a fat bee man recipe and it works. I also start out with one (1) cup of water, 1 tsp. of wintergreen, 1 tsp. of spearmint, one tsp. of tea tree oil and about 10 drops of lemongrass. I then blend all this for 6 minutes on low speed, then add three more cups of water and blend for 1-2 minutes. I have used no ingredients to emulsify and it has worked great. I use 1/2 cup of this to a gallon of syrup. Sounds strong but it works for me. Did a powdered sugar drop two weeks ago and again last week. 1st time found 9 mites in five hives total. 2nd drop found not one mite on my screened bottom boards. Don't know if it is the essential oils or not, no scientific results but it works for me.

Mbeck
04-25-2013, 03:37 PM
My guess is that many of the benefits we perceive from a stimulative additive to feed have more to do with increased consumption (which may have its own problems ).
This is only a guess!

Riskybizz
04-25-2013, 03:39 PM
AUXCOM << "I figure less crap you feed them, the better. "

By crap you mean the lemongrass oil, spearmint, lecithin and the sucrose?..

JohnBeeMan
04-25-2013, 04:23 PM
banana peel is used in yellow jacket trap bait so that honey bees will avoid it.

I never eat banana on the day that I am working the bees.

BeeCurious
07-24-2013, 09:36 AM
4 oz lemongrass
4 oz spearmint
70 oz sugar water (3 parts sugar 1 part water)
5 tsp lecithin granules
4 oz warm water

Combine lecithin and warm water let sit for an hour.
Blend with 2 cups warm sugar water
Cool to room temp
Add oils and blend on high for one minute.
Add cool sugar water blend.

Add 1 to 2 tsp per quart of feed.

@ 2 tsp it works out to about 1 ml EO per quart
In my opinion, the above Honey-B-Healthy substitute must be closer to the actual product.




Selling at $20 per pint, I would think that Honey-B-Healthy has to contain far more essential oil than what has been used in the following, often referenced recipe:


5 cups Water
2 1/2 pounds Sugar
1/8 tsp. Lecithin Granules (used as an emulsifier)
15 drops Spearmint Oil
15 drops Lemongrass Oil




I haven't used any EO's for a few years but Mbeck's recipe strikes me as being more correct. Perhaps there will be a recipe that results in a pint, or quart volume some day...

Earl of Chatham
07-24-2013, 12:44 PM
Not trying to bust on anyone for working out the recipes, but I have found that there is no need to make up a recipe. I just add the EOs directly to the sugar before making a batch of syrup. By adding it to the sugar and mixing it in before adding the water the emulsifier is not necessary. If you try to drop the EOs on the top of the syrup after its made, they just float. You don't have to mix it through out all of the sugar just enough so that it isn't in a ball.

I think the EOs last longer if they are pure than in a mix.

In my case I put 25 lbs of sugar into a 7 gallon bucket, add a full dropper each of lemongrass and spearmint EO, (about 20-25 drops each if you are counting), mix it into the sugar a bit and then add 3 gallons of water. Then I stir with a 5 gallon pail mixer in a hand drill. BTW, no need for any heat.

Mbeck
07-24-2013, 12:59 PM
Fact is you don't even need the E.O.'s
You could even leave the water out and feed dry sugar.
You don't even have to feed sugar!

FlowerPlanter
07-24-2013, 02:22 PM
>Fact is you don't even need the E.O.'s
Yes I think they take sugar water just fine.

>You could even leave the water out and feed dry sugar.
They don’t eat dry sugar, even in the mountain camp method it must first absorb moisture before the bees eat it.

>You don't even have to feed sugar!
You might want to gear up for a spring flow, build comb, build a swarm/splits, or prepare for winter.

Thyme EO was left off the list, used for mite treatment and nosema.
Here is a link for EO being used for mite control.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm

BeeCurious
07-28-2013, 09:27 PM
Thyme EO was left off the list, used for mite treatment and nosema.
Here is a link for EO being used for mite control.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm

"Thyme EO " is also absent from WVU's list...

:scratch:

HIVE+
09-09-2013, 06:40 PM
Try some anise oil as per http://www.honeybeesuite.com/?s=anise+oil.

Andrew Dewey
09-10-2013, 05:03 AM
Help me understand - what is being attempted at accomplishment by adding EOs? To me EOs largely work as a feeding stimulant and at this time of year I don't want that! I have used HBH as a feeding stimulant in the past - it worked well. Claims of other effects/benefits are unproven AFAIK.

bbrowncods
09-10-2013, 06:17 AM
When added, Varroa populations tend to decrease or not increase. It could be a coincidence. But it has been noted that hives do better. Is it because they are stronger and can deal with Varroa? Or there is some effect from the EO directly? I don't know.

Mbeck
01-07-2014, 09:48 PM
Update

I made a batch using inverted 2:1 and reduced lecithin.
I inverted the 2:1 with citric acid and heat.
I also let the lecithin bloom (soak) in water over night before blending.
Worked very well, I'm going to try it next with a higher concentration of sugar in my I inversion.

4 oz lemongrass
4 oz spearmint
70 oz inverted sugar (2 parts sugar 1 part water)
3 tsp lecithin granules
4 oz warm water

Combine lecithin and warm water let sit over night.

Blend with 2 cups warm inverted sugar.
Cool to room temp
Add oils and blend on high for one minute.
Add cool sugar water blend.

Add 1 to 2 tsp per quart of feed.

@ 2 tsp it works out to about 1 ml EO per quart

Lauri
01-08-2014, 08:57 AM
I use straight essential oil mix for bees now, over a mix like in the OP.. It depends on how you're going to apply it and what your intent is. If I used it to SPRAY on frames I would use a recipe like the OP though. I don't find it necessary to spray on anything. They draw out new frames just fine on their own.

I don't use it as a feed or suppliment and am careful to use only small amounts for an attractant only, for sugar blocks, protein patties and swarm traps.
I also use the essential oils for homemade soap, cleaning products and hair shampoo and conditioners,etc. Non for sale, just for friends and family. I buy the 5# size lemon grass oil, orange oil and spearmint oil, Smaller sizes of others.
When you get yours, touch a tiny drop to your lips. Then you'll use it conservatively. It is very strong.

My husband always comments when he walks into the greenhouse when the sugar blocks are drying in the dehydrator. BOY! It smells good in here! And that's even WITH all the vinegar in the mix.

For swarm traps I took my mix, shake it up and get some in a small syringe. Then I can put a few drops here and there with pretty good control over the amount.

In photo below you see lemongrass oil mixed with a bit if Mann Lakes Pro Health. I figured the lecithin in the pro health would help suspend the new oil, but it still seperated. No matter, just shake it up before use.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/tweety4926/2013%20bee%20pics/P6300339_zps0298263d.jpg

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/tweety4926/2013%20bee%20pics/P6060233_zpsd94c6957.jpg

http://www.100pureessentialoils.com/

Go to Bulk WHolesale oils. They had free shipping around Christmas.

I see Mann Lake has changed their Pro Health recipe and added Thymol. From the negative comments from some , I won't be using that any more. If I want any other essential oils, I'll add them myself.

As Michael Bush theorizes they may upset the digestive bacteria in the gut. I use it for scent, NOT a treatment or suppliment. Like I said, touch a tiny drop to your lips. As it burns, you''ll see why is should be used in small amounts.

Some oils can be poisonous, but possibly beneficial in very small amounts. Some use tea tree oil. I've not yet tried that because it is more of a treatment than attractant. I'm not against treatment if it is necessary..just selective and cautious. I'd have to do an experiment on a hive with mites myself to see the results. I wouldn't take the word of others I don't know and risk the entire hive.

DPBsbees
01-08-2014, 09:25 AM
Update

I made a batch using inverted 2:1 and reduced lecithin.
I inverted the 2:1 with citric acid and heat.

Mbeck, Would you mind explaining how you inverted the syrup? Thanks, Dan

Mbeck
01-08-2014, 06:06 PM
Inverted sugar

1 gallon sugar
1/2 gallon water
1 tsp. citric acid

Mix all ingredients
Heat with a lid until simmer. (Steam helps wash crystals down)
Remove lid and brush sugar crystal down at liquid edge with brush and water.
Do not stir.
Simmer until sugar is 236 degrees F.
Remove from heat and cool.
Tune out the inevitable comments about this sugar being bad for bees.

Rusty Hills Farm
01-08-2014, 06:40 PM
Or 8 pounds of sugar and 8 pints of water and 1 teaspoon of citric acid (lemon juice) or ascorbic acid (Fruit Fresh, which is available in the canning department).

;)