View Full Version : Opening Brood Area Question
05-31-2012, 06:08 AM
I have been reading through many, many threads here and read that someone knows a beek here in FL (maybe he said commercial?) who (I'm just remembering this, not really quoting) "goes in every 10 days and moves any capped frames of brood up into a deep over the queen excluder."
I have several questions about this...
1) Would this be a good way to keep the brood chamber open to discourage swarming, yet keep the forager population up for honey production?
2) What is the significance of "every 10 days?"
3) Would he then take the frames that had brood in them and move them back down? (Or would these be filled with honey already in that time?)
Down here in FL we use single deeps for brood, but I have one hive that is packed with brood atm (it has two supers on it, one is nearly all capped the other filling nicely. I'm thinking this might be an interesting way to keep the queen producing as she is, but not actually give her two full boxes for laying. I'd hate for this hive to swarm right now...or ever. LOL) Thanks for any help!
05-31-2012, 08:21 AM
If you do move the capped brood up above the excluder and also at the same time move the empty comb that just had bees emerge from it back down under the excluder, yes, the queen will have plenty of room to lay IF the bees don't promptly fill it with nectar instead.
The point of every 10 days is that brood takes 21 days from laying to emergence, and it takes about 9 days for the bees to cap the brood. Moving it up above the excluder lets the beek put empty comb back down. The queen only needs access to empty comb, the bees take care of the brood after the eggs are laid.
You would have to put empty comb back under.
Give it a try, worst case is that you will spend more time messing about in the hive and gain nothing.
05-31-2012, 09:08 AM
Give it a try...
Make sure you have an upper entrance so drones aren't trapped.
05-31-2012, 10:49 AM
psfred - Thank you for the info and encouragement. That "every 10 days" thing has me intrigued. As I only have 2 full-sized hives and 1 nuc atm, messing around in them isn't a big deal. Fun, in fact. :rolleyes:
indypartridge - "Make sure you have an upper entrance so drones aren't trapped."
Oh...GOOD POINT! Took me reading this a couple times before the light went on. :doh: So, this is making me think. What are the general thoughts on actually trapping the queen (closing off the bottom entrance and using only a top entrance) with this type of maintenance schedule? Would this work? Be good? Okay? Bad? Do people do this? (This hive does have a SBB.) I'd been thinking of adding a top entrance along with the bottom entrance after reading so many comments about them anyway. I just hadn't thought of closing the bottom one off as well.
05-31-2012, 01:11 PM
If you are really wanting to make honey, why not give them the two boxes for brood? They will probably fill it with a lot of honey anyway.
05-31-2012, 07:33 PM
If you are really wanting to make honey, why not give them the two boxes for brood? They will probably fill it with a lot of honey anyway.Well...I don't know. How about, That's not how we do things down here. All joking aside, I really don't know. :scratch: I took a course last summer and have been to quite a few hobbyists and commercial apiaries around here and everyone uses single deeps. In a way, I have more wondered about why others use multiple deeps than why we use only singles. I'd always just assumed it was a heat thing (we have it, others don't.)
05-31-2012, 07:42 PM
I think it is short winters.
05-31-2012, 08:16 PM
I would ask myself this question, are there a lot of swarms here in Florida where I live? If so, could it be because they are crowded and sense they must swarm. If not many swarms, continue on and keep adding supers and extracting the extra. Reminds me of a story I once heard, the granddaughter wanted to bake a ham like her grandmother use too. She bought a large shoulder like her grandmother and cut it in half and baked it. After cooking it she got to wondering why her grandmother always cooked half of the shoulder at a time. She called her mother and ask her why her mother only cooked half the ham at once, her mother told her that was all her mother's pot would hold.
06-01-2012, 12:23 AM
I think you are talking about (Crazy) Roland's method. In a post last year he said 10-12 days, lately he's said 12-14 days. I asked him few questions about his method. Here's the link:
06-01-2012, 04:57 AM
I think it is short winters. That's probably it. Or no winter as this past year pretty much was. I'm definitely going to ask, however.
I would ask myself this question, are there a lot of swarms here in Florida where I live? We do have a lot of swarms, but I think it's the AHBs that are doing so mostly. Hobbyists I know don't seem to have them any more here than elsewhere...I think. (Going to ask that, too.) Loved your story, btw. So true in so many different cases!
I think you are talking about (Crazy) Roland's method. In a post last year he said 10-12 days, lately he's said 12-14 days. I asked him few questions about his method. Here's the link: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?266489-Factors-contributing-to-Swarms-and-Swarm-Prevention&p=787722#post787722
Matthew Davey Yes! I think this explains more than the post I'd read, but now I want even more. Would you happen to know where he might have gone into detail about what he does and how? Fascinating stuff!
06-01-2012, 05:50 AM
Roland also said more in: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?262805-Checkerboarding-verses-Opening-the-Broodnest&p=737186#post737186
It's worth reading the whole thread (there's a lot in it!)
06-01-2012, 06:54 AM
After some investigation it's looking like Roland's method is based on the book:
Honey getting. Edward Lloyd Sechrist - CHAPTER III - THE CLEAR BROOD NEST METHOD, 1944: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=2sIvAAAAYAAJ&dq=editions:LCCNagr48000516
06-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Thanks, MattDavey! I'm still working on the "Checkerboardinng vs..." thread. Interesting! I'll have to see if I can find the book now, too.
06-03-2012, 09:27 AM
a hive in florida that is restricted to a hive body only without moving capped frames up above the queen excluder will swarm guaranteed! I dont use a queen excluder, I let the queen determine how much room she needs
06-03-2012, 11:45 AM
...a hive in florida that is restricted to a hive body only without moving capped frames up above the queen excluder will swarm guaranteed!...I've been getting that impression. LOL Okay, these bees are just going to have to put up with my messing with them more now that they're doing so well. I'm bound and determined (for the moment) to use the QE. Thank you for your input!