Bonnie,
Most will say 2-3 weeks for laying workers to develop.... If you are having/think you have, this problem, is it in an established hive or a newly installed package? I ask because last year we installed a package, and within a week we had laying workers. Everyone said it wasn't possible that fast, but I can tell you it is... After thining about it, I believe the package had been queenless during shipment (when we installed, we forgot to look at the Queen in cage of this package to make sure she was alive, newbee mistake), and therefore were that much closer to laying workers by the time we got them and hived them.
It's a split I did over a month ago and 2 weeks ago I got an afterswarm from it, I caught the swarm and hived it. I definatley have a queen in the swarm, but the split appears not to. So far I'm seeing no evidence of a laying worker, I'm going to combine the swarm back in with the split and have read that acceptance can be difficult If I have a laying worker. I'm a newbee too so was just looking for more info so I can decide on which method to combine.
Don't jump the gun Bonnie. If it swarmed two weeks ago it could easily be another two before you see brood from the new queen. If it is queenright and you combine it with another queenright hive, it can cause problems....as you might imagine.
If you definitely want to combine, and you are sure there is no queen, I would just use the newspaper method. It worked fine for us last year, and we definitely had laying worker(s). Or, have you thought about adding a frame of eggs and brood to the split, and if they don't have a queen they will try to make one....
I did the split 40 days ago and when it swarmed it was with a virgin queen or just newly mated one. According to the queen rearing chart I have, 40 days is the end of the line in hoping for evidence of a second new queen, no eggs, no larvae. I see no evidence of a laying worker but don't know 100%, would just like to get this done in a timely manner so I don't complicate things with a laying worker.
If you're sure you are queenless and there was a queen in the hive two weeks ago, I don't think laying workers are going to be an issue.
What does make me wonder is why a two plus week old split would have an 'afterswarm' without a queen in the oven.....
I was confused about that too, all I can figure was I had a cold snap here that put them back in a cluster for a couple days and the remaining QC's were no longer viable or the cool raining weather that followed prevented the other VQ's from going on mating flights. I don't have a alot of experience but I'm pretty sure it's queenless. Just for giggles what would happen if there is a queen?
On the day they swarmed they would have a capped queen cell 8 days from emergence. 8 days later they would have a virgin queen. Two to three weeks after that she will probably be laying. That's a likely range of 26-33 days from when they swarmed.
As far as queenlessness, it is not queenlessness that causes laying workers, at least not directly. It's broodlessness so two to three weeks after they are broodless they will likely get some laying workers.
Ok
on day 1 I did a queenless split
day 22 the split sent out a swarm with a queen the split made
day 40 split has no eggs and no brood if my math is correct they have been broodless for 17 days, and queenless since the swarm, gave this hive extra time (+4) hoping it would produce another queen
day 40 swarm has eggs, open brood and capped brood
I don't think that the split would have any available resources to make a queen at the time of the swarm. it had no laying queen for 22 days and the swarm left with a virgin or newly mated queen.
Well, I combined them yesterday, I'm going to proceed slowly just to be cautious, I put a screen on top of the split and put the swarm on top of that will leave it like that for couple days and then switch to newspaper and hope for the best. The swarm I have closed in with a syrup top feeder.
I am beginning to wonder if you didn't have an abscond rather than a swarm. Conditions in the nest become intolerable and the bees abandon it. Usually only a few bees remain...typically foragers who returned after the house population left. It makes more sense to me than a swarm without a queen in the making.
The split still has a decent population, heavy with drones begging to be fed, but the cantalope size swarm with alot of foragers left, they have continued to bring in pollen and nectar. I'm guessing there was a second queen in the oven and she perished in a mating flight or some other bee drama.
>I think my point is...if two weeks ago they had a capped queen cell but no other brood....how likely is that?
Assuming a viable queen cell, it's doubtful. But if if fails it does cut things close. Added a frame of eggs and open brood will buy you another three to four weeks and insure that if the queen doesn't make it they get another shot at it... and it boosts the population so there are some more young bees at a time the hive needs them.
Am I understanding this correctly, that as insurance I should add a frame of eggs and brood to my combine? should I do this when I switch from a screen separation to newspaper?
>Am I understanding this correctly, that as insurance I should add a frame of eggs and brood to my combine? should I do this when I switch from a screen separation to newspaper?
Assuming you know one half of the combine has a queen, there would be no need. But if there is any doubt, it is simple insurance.
Assuming you know one half of the combine has a queen, there would be no need. But if there is any doubt, it is simple insurance.
Thanks Michael, I'm positive the swarm has a queen, It was easy to find her they've only built 5 half frame size paddles of new comb, and that is filled with eggs, brood and some stores.
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