Happy with test of home made extractor.

[Acebird]

When I first showed pictures of this extractor almost a year ago forum members expressed a concern for the motor in the bottom getting covered with honey. To guard against that I put a plastic baggie over the motor before installing the PVC spindle. At first the bag was too long and wrapped around the stationary shaft supporting the motor and that is what you see at the end of the video. The motor slowed down to a stall. Because of the motor design this doesn’t hurt it for short periods. On the next set of frames I cut the baggie shorter and never had this problem again.

I only made enough metal brackets for two frames to be spun before I made this trial run. I will now make more brackets so I can load in 4 frames at a time.

Future improvements:

I will make an elevated base so I can get a pan underneath the barrel for drawing out the honey. I might weight the base because when the extractor is empty it shakes around for the first few frames. Once the weight of the honey gets to the bottom it is much less.

Right now the motor cord is hard wired. I will put a connector in the line so the motor can be taken out and separated from the switch control. This will make it easier to get the last little bit honey out of the barrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozw11zJ88Yw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wArqLtXjak

[Charlie B]

Ace,

Not bad. Is there anyway you can mount the motor on top? I know you took steps to keep the honey out of it but it seems to me that placing plastic on top would suffocate the motor causing it to overheat. Just a thought.

[Acebird]

Is there a way? Yes. Would I ever do it? NO. Here is why:

1 Any attempt to mount the motor on top will result in frictional losses that will slow the spinning down.
2 Mounting the motor on top will make the extractor top heavy and limit access to loading and unloading of the frames. The motor in the bottom actually results in system stability. The motor is mounted on a wooden x brace that is NOT fastened to the plastic barrel. The x brace is tapered on the ends so it wedges into the sides of the barrel's taper near the bottom. It takes less than 30 seconds to remove the motor and x brace for cleaning the barrel. I know the location of the motor is contrary to what people perceive is the right location but I can assure you it isn't.
3 You would think that the plastic bag would suffocate the motor but it doesn't. The motor is very low horse power, that means it radiates very little heat. Secondly, four or even two frames spinning in a barrel is in itself a huge fan circulating much more cooling air than the dimples on the fan motor itself. The motor never got warm at all, I checked. And finally, now that I know that the system works to satisfaction I will go ahead and make a spinner disc that mounts to the motor which will prevent any possibility of a drip of honey getting on the motor itself. I already pulled a couple stainless pot covers, and a pizza tray out of the dumpster as possible candidates for the disc.

This is part of the process of taking something that is prototype and making it production ready.

[Oldtimer]

Well checked you video Ace, must say with the motor in the bottom in a plasic bag floating in honey I've never seen anything quite like it!

But hey, at least you did it! More than many would do.

[Acebird]

With only 12 frames of honey extracted the level of honey was a long way from the motor. I think I would have to gut both hives of every drop of honey to even come close to the motor. That is not my intent though. On my next extraction I will be letting the honey out as fast as I extract that way the time it takes to filter will be used up during the extraction cycle. I made some stainless funnel screens from some fine mesh I had squirreled away in the basement. It is possible I could fill the jars from the extractor without having to do all the transferring.

[sqkcrk]

Pretty clever. You better clamp that sucker down before you get hurt. It looks like you already messed up your index finger in one of those videos.

[Acebird]

Next time I extract I will show you a video of it hands off. It won't go anywhere, I promise. The oscillations you see are no different than what you would see if you could lift the cover off your cloths washer during the spin cycle. If you put a dab of chewing gum on a spinning top (essentially making it out of balance) if will make the same oscillations. There are two ways to handle a spinning mass that is unbalanced. You can either fight it and force it to revolve around a point that it doesn't want to or let it do its thing. One results in tremendous resistive forces and one results in zero resistive force.

LOL, I will tell you what happen with my finger and you can believe it or not. The day before we extracted we processed tomatoes. My wife dries the skins in the oven to be ground up for adding flavor to foods or making paste. I was trying to wipe the dried skins off the cookie sheet and slit my finger like it was cut with a razor. So I can tell you first hand (no pun intended) dried tomatoes skins are razor sharp.

You are welcomed to come use or see my extractor first hand if nothing more than to satisfy your curiosity. I should mention that it will not fit deep sized frames.

[sqkcrk]

I'm not arguing w/ you, it just looked to me like you had to hold it down or it would wander all over the room and probably fall over. The extractors I work w/ are all bolted down to the floor and well balanced.

Just suggesting.

[Jim 134]

I'm not arguing w/ you, it just looked to me like you had to hold it down or it would wander all over the room and probably fall over. The extractors I work w/ are all bolted down to the floor and well balanced.

Just suggesting.



This what looks like to me Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On Just my $0.02

http://youtu.be/8yRdDnrB5kM



BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Acebird]

Look at a washing machine or come look and see it in operation.

[sqkcrk]

I really don't know what that has to do w/ anything suggested here. Washing machines don't need to be held down manually like what is seen in your videos.

Besides, it looks like you have made something which works for you just fine. I have no need to see it for myself. I was merely making a suggestion. Take it or leave it. Ni difference to me. Let's leave it at that.

[Acebird]

The extractors I work w/ are all bolted down to the floor and well balanced.


The extractors you work with are forcing the revolving of the frames around a fixed axis. The machine might be balanced empty but the minute you put a frame in it the balance is gone. No two frames are the same.

My extractor does not revolve around a fixed axis and neither does a clothes washer. Neither will need to be bolted down.

[honeyman46408]

When you learn how to load an extractor they dont walk around

[sqkcrk]

My extractor does not revolve around a fixed axis and neither does a clothes washer. Neither will need to be bolted down.

Huh? Well, okay.

[odfrank]

My extractor does not revolve around a fixed axis and neither does a clothes washer. Neither will need to be bolted down.

Acebird you look like a nice guy with your dog and all, but from many of your posts, the videos I wish you would post are when experience and reality give you a quick kick in the behind. Tell us after 100 loads in your extractor that it does not need tying down. Also video the honey filtering as fast as you extract after the tenth load.
Throw a wetsuit and three beach towels in the washer and tell me it never needs bolting down. Mine sat still for years but with that load walked across the garage yanking out its power cord, supply lines and drain as it waltzed to the other side.

[odfrank]

When you learn how to load an extractor they dont walk around

But are all of your laborers as fast a learner as you?
"Six frames in a row of solid granulated honey are different than liquid honey?"

[sqkcrk]

Better extracting thru better supervision? What are they doing putting granulated frames of honey in your extractor for anyway?

[Acebird]

Throw a wetsuit and three beach towels in the washer and tell me it never needs bolting down. Mine sat still for years but with that load walked across the garage yanking out its power cord, supply lines and drain as it waltzed to the other side.

All right, you win. There is a common sense factor. I don't know anybody that has bolted their automatic washer down. Most people that try things like rugs stand by the washer during the spin cycle so they can shut it off because they know the imbalance will be to great. I just assumed that most beekeepers would exercise the same caution. Maybe not.

[sqkcrk]

A well built, well balanced machine, bolted down to the floor doesn't need manually held down, especially when all slots have frames of honey in them. Had you built an extractor w/ 8 or 16 frames it would be easier to balance, I believe.

[Acebird]

Yes, the more frames you have in the extractor the less effect one different frame will make on the whole spinning mass. The assumption you and others are making is that I was holding the extractor down. I wasn't and you couldn't hold four frames spinning at 300-400 RPM down by hand. All I was doing is insuring that the top x brace did not pop out of the barrel. That would result in a crash. And before you go blowing things out of proportions a crash is not that dramatic. I did have a crash on the second run with two frames. The top metal clip was made differently using a loose piece of metal to latch it on the spindle. That came off and the one frame got thrown and jammed by the other frame. The motor stalled instantly and no damage was done to either frame. Had it been a typical gear driven (belt driven) extractor it would have busted the frames for sure. I made changes to the top metal bracket so it cannot let go and it also makes it faster to load the extractor spindle.

I can understand the negativity at first when the extractor was unproven. That is normal and I am used to it. Usually after I have proven a concept the negativity goes away and it hasn’t.

I guess it has already been said, “it works for me”. I accomplished what I wanted to do and it will benefit myself and all the local beeks that what to use it who are tired of turning a crank. That is good enough for me.:)

[Oldtimer]

Dude you've proved it! It's a machine!!!

[sqkcrk]

I can understand the negativity at first when the extractor was unproven. That is normal and I am used to it. Usually after I have proven a concept the negativity goes away and it hasn’t.



Is your honey bucket half full or half empty? Seems like it's half empty. People have been nice and complimentery about your extractor, but, you see the comments are personal criticism. Which they weren't.

But I will say, that according to what I saw in your video, either you were holding tghe extractor down so it wouldn't wobble so much or you were holding the extractor down and the camewra was jumping around. Either way, makes no difference to me.

Obviously I have a defect which doesn't allow me to make comments w/out them making you feel insulted. It's all my fault for thinking that maybe a discussion could occur. I must be insane, cause I tried this before w/ the same results.

I need to go to another meeting. Where is the next one? ABA that is.

[Charlie B]

Sorry Ace,

I'm with Mark on this one. Why do you put yourself out there asking what people think, posting videos etc. and then when you do get constructive criticism, you lash back as if you're being assaulted. You on the other hand criticize whom you choose about topics you know nothing about and make yourself look foolish.

As far as your extractor goes, I'll use your reasoning to give you an opinion as follows:

On another thread you wrote that it took you 30 hrs. to build your extractor. I see you're an Engineer by your profile. I don't know about NY but here in California, Engineers can make some serious money. I'll be conservative and say you make $50.00 an hour as an Engineer. (You probably make much more). So... $50 X 30 hours = $1,500.00. With $1,500.00 you could have bought TWO new 6 frame motor driven extractors that would last far longer than that contraption you put together.

[sqkcrk]

He isn't that kind of Engineer. He is a Mechanical Engineer. A Maintenance Man. According to what he has said about thwe work he does and according to the photos he has Posted. I'm not sure what kind of Engineer makes $50.00/hr. Maybe I should go to work for one. Beekeeping Engineers don't make that kind of money.

[odfrank]

Better extracting thru better supervision? What are they doing putting granulated frames of honey in your extractor for anyway?

I use my Hispanic landscape crew as my extracting crew. I don't supervise every frame.To them a frame full of honey is a frame full of honey. They extract as fast as they dig. We have some kind of plant whose nectar granulates into a coarse crystal in the comb in a few weeks. A few of those who make the extractor dance the Hokey Pokey.

[Charlie B]

I'm not sure what kind of Engineer makes $50.00/hr. Maybe I should go to work for one. Beekeeping Engineers don't make that kind of money.

My brother is a structural engineer who bills at $200.00 an hour. I don't pay that much attention to Ace's rants so I don't know what kind of an engineer he is and I don't really care. So..., let's cut that in half then and say he makes $25.00 and hour. He still could have bought a new extractor that would last him a lifetime.

[Charlie B]

I don't supervise every frame.To them a frame full of honey is a frame full of honey.

Having that much time on your hands to supervise in that great of detail is a luxury most of us don't have.

[sqkcrk]

Maybe so, but people can be trained, can't they? Or don't you speak the same language?

[Acebird]

If you work for a company you get a salary as a engineer in a range of 40,000-90,000 without going into management. I no longer work for a company and my compensation is drastically different based on what I do. Once you have been an engineer though you can't stop being creative. It is in your blood. I made this contraption because I enjoy making contraptions that (people) say will never work. I have a long history of doing just that. Secondly, I expect other people will enjoy it too. Most people that buy a hand crank extractor get tired of it and then look for ways to motorize it. I skipped all that.
So now anyone that wants to skip all that can copy what I have done. Some may not feel they are handy enough to do it. Anyone can do it. I will help them. People that have never built a thing in their lives build bee hives. Those are the people I can help.

[Jim 134]

Sorry Ace,

I'm with Mark on this one. Why do you put yourself out there asking what people think, posting videos etc. and then when you do get constructive criticism, you lash back as if you're being assaulted. You on the other hand criticize whom you choose about topics you know nothing about and make yourself look foolish.

As far as your extractor goes, I'll use your reasoning to give you an opinion as follows:

On another thread you wrote that it took you 30 hrs. to build your extractor. I see you're an Engineer by your profile. I don't know about NY but here in California, Engineers can make some serious money. I'll be conservative and say you make $50.00 an hour as an Engineer. (You probably make much more). So... $50 X 30 hours = $1,500.00. With $1,500.00 you could have bought TWO new 6 frame motor driven extractors that would last far longer than that contraption you put together.

For that money $1,500 you can buy a Maxant Model 1400PL and at is made from 20 gauge #4 polished stainless steel and in is made in the USA. Just my $0.02

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Charlie B]

You could probably take lessons from this guy on building a home made extractor.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,29880.0.html

[Acebird]

What would I learn Charlie? How to spend money to accomplish the same thing?

My guess is very few people will try to copy what this guy has done because of the expense of doing it.

If you want to see what I would design if I were working for Maxant then send me $800 American and I will get started.;) Most back yard beekeepers do not require food grade equipment. They already know that food produced by insects OUTDOORS and nested in wooden frames is not food grade to begin with.

[honeyman46408]

They already know that food produced by insects OUTDOORS and nested in wooden frames is not food grade to begin with.

WHAT?? Do you not know that the inside of a beehive is as clean as an operating room?

[txsbman]

I think you've got an extractor there that works and you've had a lot of fun building it! Anything else required?

[BeeCurious]

Most back yard beekeepers do not require food grade equipment. They already know that food produced by insects OUTDOORS and nested in wooden frames is not food grade to begin with.

Really?

I'm not so sure that "most" hobbyists "know" this...