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Skinner Apiaries
01-30-2011, 05:18 PM
Ok sideliners and commercials, anybody got a good tried and true method for mixing/diluting and applying formic acid?

I'll take any other good suggestions for nuking trach mites, I know of grease patties and menthol. What I really need to hear is some commercially viable, and effective methods though!

jean-marc
01-30-2011, 06:00 PM
For diluting formic acid, I'm assuming you're talking about the 85% stuff? If so , then 3 parts formic acid to 1 part water. Then the formic will have been diluted to 65% or close enough.

Afterwards I'll place 200 meat soaker pads, the kind that can hold 45 ml up on end in a 15 kg bucket (2 gallons) I'll then put 7 liters of formic acid in the bucket, that's 3 and a half large bottles of soda. When I do this I just pour it over the meat soaker pads then pop the lid on. By the time you get to the yard the formic is more or less absorbed.

Just before placing the pads on the bees I'll dump the whole lot of them into a bucket that has had holes drilled into the bottom. This way the excess formic does not drip onto the bees. Place another bucket below the one with the drilled holes to catch the excess formic.

Place 1 pad per hive every week for 3 weeks. That will take care of your traceal mites. I will also feed the hives once the lids are off. All my hives have a frame feeder.

Jean-Marc

Skinner Apiaries
01-30-2011, 06:15 PM
What sort of temperatures are needed? Also, do you require a rim, or will the meat pads fit fine between boxes? I presume the fumes are heavier than air.

megank
01-31-2011, 01:26 AM
Ok sideliners and commercials, anybody got a good tried and true method for mixing/diluting and applying formic acid?

I'll take any other good suggestions for nuking trach mites, I know of grease patties and menthol. What I really need to hear is some commercially viable, and effective methods though!


Vi x Ci = Vf x Cf

Initial volume x Initial concentration = Final volume x final concentration

Since you know the initial volume and concentration, and what you want the final concentration to be, solve for final volume and that will tell you how much water to add.

SLOWLY add ACID to WATER...never the other way around

jean-marc
01-31-2011, 07:54 AM
Wit the meat soaker pads, they are placed between the lid and the top box, no need for a rim. Temperatures should be warm, I think above 65 F and not excessively hot, so below 90F. The fumes are heavier than air. Once I placed the pads between the boxws, but it is way too much work.

Formic will take care of any tracheal mite problems.

Jean-Marc

BEES4U
01-31-2011, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the information.
Ernie

rkr
01-31-2011, 09:05 AM
A good way to check the accuracy of your mixture is by checking the specific gravity of the liquid with a Hydrometer; a hydrometer measures the difference in gravity (density) between pure water and a liquid.
Here is a link on how to use one.link (http://www.lumcon.edu/education/studentdatabase/hydrometer.asp)
I bought mine at a beer and wine brewing shop for around $20 (I think)

Formic acid - 10% 68F 20C 1.025 Specific Gravity
Formic acid - 50% 68F 20C 1.121 Specific Gravity
Formic acid - 65% 68F 20C 1.150 Specific Gravity
Formic acid - 80% 68F 20C 1.186 Specific Gravity
Formic acid - 90% 68F 20C 1.221 Specific Gravity

specific-gravity-liquid-fluids (http://http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-gravity-liquid-fluids-d_294.html)

XXf or XXC= the Tempurature of the liquid being tested

MSDS sheet for formic interesing info. Link (http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/formicsafety.html)


I use distilled water to mix with so I do not get any Lime ( hard water) effecting the acid

jean-marc
01-31-2011, 09:29 PM
Good point.

Jean-Marc

Skinner Apiaries
02-01-2011, 02:01 PM
Thanks guys, that's all very useful.

Skinner Apiaries
02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
One more thing, that probably isnt extremely important, concentration aside, does it matter if it's Lab grade or just the stuff used to make Biodiesel?

rkr
02-02-2011, 09:19 AM
Well...... It will be hard to get a strait answer on that one. Some will tell you that the commercial grade stuff has some heavy metals in it and is not good, some will say that the action of the acid is the vapor thus any minute amount of metals like lead will stay in the absorbent medium. You have to decide for yourself what is acceptable.

megank
02-02-2011, 10:15 AM
What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad...

Axtmann
02-02-2011, 11:54 AM
<<<<<<What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad... >>>>

Only if you have a sheet plastic under the pad, as soon as you put the pad directly on the wood frames it is a different story.
Soon or later you have it in wax and honey.

megank
02-03-2011, 11:38 PM
<<<<<<What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad... >>>>

Only if you have a sheet plastic under the pad, as soon as you put the pad directly on the wood frames it is a different story.
Soon or later you have it in wax and honey.

Never known anyone who would put FA pads on honey frames *rolls eyes*

Axtmann
02-04-2011, 11:08 AM
Megank bees also store honey in brood frames, did you know that? As soon as the queen need more space to lay eggs bees move the honey. Do you think the foundation manufacturer use only wax from honey combs? New wax foundations has been tested in Europe for pesticides and they found almost everything beekeepers put in there hives. If I would use formic, I would only go for the Nassenheider evaporator or for the Dr. Liebig system.

http://www.biovet.ch/en/Imkerei/liebig-dispenser.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/nassenheider.html

megank
02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
OK..People have been using industrial FA for years...Have there been cases where FA has contamininated Honey with heavy metals beyand the limits found harmful?

I doubt it...

jdpro5010
02-04-2011, 02:37 PM
What is the effect on varroa with this treatment.

valleyman
02-04-2011, 04:07 PM
How many of you know about the soon to be new Formic Acid Mite Away Quick Strips. I just read about them in an article where Randy Oliver had tested them. He called them the new silver bullet. Might be pricey for a commercial beek but are supposed to be very easy to use which means time might even out the costs.

HONEYDEW
02-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Silver bullet would be good if it will ever get past the govs. shield of safety, I don't understand why the bee federations and such are so impotent at helping get anything through..

Skinner Apiaries
02-04-2011, 08:11 PM
This is probably grounds for a card or a deleted post, but I heard the guy who bought the company or whatnot and made the new MAQS didnt do the paperwork promptly. Of course you all know how skeptic I am of the EPA, and the rest of the government. Thanks for all the extra info guys. As to the combs and honey, I dont think that even with the top bar you would have and liquid acid dribbling down on the brood combs to contaminate the honey with heavy metals. I alway wonder how those Chinese manage to get lead in their honey that shows up at sue... They must toss car batteries in 5000 gallon tanks, seriously, how DO you screw honey up with heavy metals.

jean-marc
02-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Skinner:

Try storing honey in metal containers that have lead soldering. Works every time.

Jean-Marc

Skinner Apiaries
02-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Hmm never thought of that, I'd considered piping, or maybe they used leaded fuel drums. It would be interesting to research it on the ground, in China, but that's neither here nor there. If you have any links or magazine articles pertaining to specific sources of contamination that would be interesting. All I ever hear is about adulteration, or things found state side