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LSBees
10-18-2010, 03:36 PM
What other truck mounted cranes are being used for beekeeping? If a Ezyloader cost $25K I need to find something more in my price range.

Ian
10-18-2010, 04:33 PM
its worth the money,

easy to use. the auto level is a must

BMAC
10-18-2010, 06:13 PM
for 15K I pull around a trailer and skid steer with forks! The other 10K is still in the bank!

hpm08161947
10-18-2010, 06:27 PM
The Ezloader must be for a rather specialized use.... one that I am not familiar with. I know our 10K trailer + 753 cost more like 12K. But then again there may be some specialized reasons for the EZloader these days... maybe Ian would like to list a few - I am sure he has his reasons.

LSBees
10-19-2010, 04:55 PM
I am actually shopping around for a trailer and skidsteer, then I saw the EZloader and thought maybe that would be cool until I saw the price, I am back shopping for my skid steer :)

jjgbee
10-19-2010, 07:10 PM
There are a lot of Payne loaders in back lots. All of their parts are available or buildable. A truck mounted loader has its place in small operations. A used Payne would be worth $1 to 3 thousand.

bfriendly
10-21-2010, 12:34 AM
I have seen a lot of old kelly boom loaders ...sitting around, too, (actually called kelly beehive loader I think, they may even still carry parts). Also another brand is fischer (sp) loader.

Ian
10-21-2010, 08:32 AM
I have switched to the escape board to clear bees, the loader allows me to lift the honey over the board, and then off the hive on to the truck without any effort.

I have a guy that has worked with me for a number of years. At the end of the first pull, he told me , "Ian, kinda feels like we are cheating"

No lifting, no blowers, no fume boards.
just a bit slower running escape boards as compaired to 5 guys and fume boards

In stead of hiring off shore help this year to take off my honey, I bought in the esyloader and hired a couple of kids. Works for my operation. We run 750 hives for honey

BMAC
10-21-2010, 03:36 PM
I dont have off shore help either. Instead its just my leaf blower my skid steer and my back. Bee escapes for 750 hives is interesting. Not to get too off topic but tell us how long does it take to set that up and get all the bees out of the supers?

I can see the nice funcationality of the truck lifts and considered buying a truck with a lift a few years back when I lived in KC but I never did it, bought the skid steer instead. I guess we all make our business decisions based upon what we expect out of it.

jjgbee
10-21-2010, 11:18 PM
I only ran 300 hives and a truck loader worked fine for me with 5 moves per year. I started in bees with a weak back (not smart) and would set my yards where in the spring and fall I could sit on one hive and work the next. During our heavy honey flows I found if I Under supered, I would make more honey. With the crane, I could lift 2,3 or 4 supers off with no exertion and slide an empty under. For inspection when they start getting heavy in the fall, I can pop the top box off and inspect and medicate. Push the button, no lifting.
Those are my reasons for a truck crane. Try that with a fork lift. My loader loaded 2 hives at a time on the truck, so it took 4 times longer than a fork lift to load the truck. BUT on California's poooor highways, I am not restricted to the destroyed right two lanes with truck and crane.

Ian
10-23-2010, 08:52 PM
>> leaf blower my skid steer and my back

ya, thats was my set up

>>tell us how long does it take to set that up and get all the bees out of the supers?

I set four yards of 32 one day, pull them off the next, extract the following. The avaliability of boxes restricts how many yards I can pull each day. IF I get into a good rythem, I can have supers in the honey house for rain days. As the pull progresses, and I accumulate more boxes, I will set until I run out of equipment, pull till the hot room is full, and extract. This year I extracted 120000 lbs in twenty or so days during the pull

I change over one box, and leave the hives over the escape boards 1 or 2 nights. At the beginning I needed 2 nights, but as things went on, I found most bees had left after one night. And by that I mean 85-90%

The escape boards follow all the same rules as puling with other methods. If there is brood up there, no bees leave. Also any cracks in the upper supers will cause problems with robbing. I found out the hard way.

ONe point to mention, if your honey supers have had brood in them, even as far back as last season, the bees will be slow to clear

Allen Martens
10-23-2010, 09:05 PM
Ian

How many supers are you pulling from 4 yards?

Ian
10-23-2010, 09:19 PM
average 3-4 per hive, probably much the same as you supering habits
change over one during the first pull, add another, and pull 1-2 on second pull, and one on third if there is a late flow

Allen Martens
10-23-2010, 10:17 PM
Ian

What I was wondering is how many supers were you collecting from the 4 yards at one time? How many hours does it take to put the escapes on 4 yards and how many hours to collect the supers?

Ian
10-24-2010, 09:18 AM
3-4 supers per hive on 32 hive yards, 4-6 yards setting one day, pulling after one night or two. Its a bit slower than humping boxes. This is my first year using the boards. I have learnt alot of tricks to quicken things up. Looking towards next year, I will be on the same pace if not quicker than humping boxes. Timing is alot of it. But you can also look at it this way. Its alot easier to deal with weather issues. If you set all your boxes, and it rains. Pick them up after the rain. no worry about setting boxes into a down pour :)

You cant beat 5 guys pulling boxes off a yard. This machine used with the escape boards is not going to keep up to that pace. But if you can pull and extract an average of 1-2 yards per day ( 1st pull honey volume) your looking at 12-14 days to tackle 25 yards and barrel 75000 lbs of first pull honey. Thats what I did anyway. I want to try to cut that time down to 10 days.

Ian
10-25-2010, 03:34 PM
I have my hives set up on two hive migratory style pallets. Today I set out from the dinner table at 1, and was back at the yard with 80 hives from two yards 6 miles apart by 3:30. Its how I am moving all my hives now. Makes better use of my investment.

I dont think its what you migratory beekeepers would use. Lifting a 4 way is right to its max, and I know two ways arnt as handly loading semi trailers. If you got the guys anyway, why invest in a lift machine, right?

LoganV
11-01-2010, 06:00 AM
I searched on CraigsList and found a used AutoCrane for $3K. Mounting cost another K. Mounted it right front (rather than rear) so I can still pull a gooseneck.

irwin harlton
11-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Can you please supply more details of your crane, pic's would be nice

API-CULTURE
11-15-2010, 08:03 AM
Try the new crane made by a small company in France.
It's a reliable engine, easy to handle.
www.materiel-apiculture.fr/la-grue-api-culture

Ask them for a translation of their brochure, they speak English

chillardbee
11-20-2010, 11:30 AM
I dont think its what you migratory beekeepers would use. Lifting a 4 way is right to its max, and I know two ways arnt as handly loading semi trailers. If you got the guys anyway, why invest in a lift machine, right?

I think thats right on the dot Ian. I think if a fella is running 400-800 hives or so and doing nothing more than local pollination, then the eziloader is probably a good investment, especialy if your going at it alone. we're not getting any younger and anything that can help us lift supers, hives, ect, is going to save your back. A couple of reasons why I want to stay away from forklifts is they or bulky and carried on a trailer thats hard enough to navigate, they are, IMO, harder on the body and the bees, and it's another mechanical worry on which there's more parts that could break down, and those parts won't break at a time when you don't need it.

I'm still building my operation and using a hydrolic tailgate on a 8 1/2' X 15' deck and using a cart to move the bees. I most certianly am looking forward to the day when I can mount an eziloader to make life not only 'ezier' but much more fun.

swatkins
11-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Try the new crane made by a small company in France.
It's a reliable engine, easy to handle.
www.materiel-apiculture.fr/la-grue-api-culture

Ask them for a translation of their brochure, they speak English

Here is a video of that crane in operation... Looks very easy :)

http://www.materiel-apiculture.fr/videos

jim lyon
11-20-2010, 12:31 PM
Agreed Chillard. The cranes would be ideal for certain operations. It can certainly be a real pain pulling, or maneuvering a loader on a trailer at times. Its kind of like a big anchor back there especially in some tough off road conditions. But you cant load/unload semis or heavy pallets of honey and you are always limited to setting your hives only on ground adjacent to where you can drive your truck and where no overhead limbs can interfere. It is pretty routine for us to stop at a nice flat loading area a short distance from where we want to place the hives and use our loader to just "truck" them in. All that said I can see some real advantages to this set up for some operations.

API-CULTURE
11-22-2010, 01:57 AM
Here is the brochure in English for the API-CULTURE CRANE !!

Ian
11-22-2010, 01:26 PM
Api-culture,

Looks like much what I have, but mine is made in the land of OZ.
Could not find its lift capacity though,
Mine is 300 kg 16' in full reach

bobbb
11-22-2010, 04:27 PM
Ian can you give me some info on your crane

Ian
11-22-2010, 08:36 PM
PM me

API-CULTURE
11-24-2010, 06:18 AM
API-CULTURE LLC manufactures three models of crane:

FIRST ONE
Weight: 450kg
Length: 2.15metres
Range: 5 metres + 1 metre extension
Loading capacity: 230kg at 5 metres
180kg at 6 metres
Exw price (excluding taxes): 16,500
Availability: Available

SECOND ONE
Weight: 300kg
Length: 2.15 metres
Range: 5 metres
Loading capacity: 80kg at 5 metres
Exw price (excluding taxes): 14,500
Availability: Available on request

THIRD ONE
Weight: 300kg
Length: 1.90 metres
Range: 5 metres + 1 metre extension
Loading capacity: 80kg at 5 metres
100kg at 4 metres
Exw price (excluding taxes): 15,500 - 1,000 (introductory price)
Availability: Being processed


Have a look at http://www.materiel-apiculture.fr/la-grue-api-culture
Ask for more information contact@api-culture.fr

EastSideBuzz
12-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Here is a video of that crane in operation... Looks very easy :)

http://www.materiel-apiculture.fr/videos

Verry nice. What is the price of that bad boy. I want one. OK. read farther. Now how scary is the euro conversion.?

Brooklyn
12-11-2010, 02:51 PM
Check these out

We are hoping to bring these to the USA sometime next year. Just working out the details. Drop me a pm if you are interested. This is just a small sample we have others.

http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/1/iNldJFumKzw

http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/3/J02F9QNMY3k

http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/5/sHvODxw_7_s

http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/6/9dQjM2Cy_3o

http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/11/mmzLD7RbsKM

concrete-bees
12-11-2010, 03:33 PM
its about $20,000 US bills - not really that bad if you have 1000 hives to turn frofit with - well worth the back pain

hpm08161947
12-11-2010, 08:27 PM
its about $20,000 US bills - not really that bad if you have 1000 hives to turn frofit with - well worth the back pain

And the next statment will be... "Thats a fine low hour bobcat + 10K trailer". Actually a true statement.

Ian
12-12-2010, 02:34 PM
The bobcat is ment for moving hives. The crane is ment for moving hives and lifting supers off the hive. Thats where your back is saved. Cant lift supers off a hive with a bobcat

EastSideBuzz
12-22-2010, 09:22 PM
The bobcat is ment for moving hives. The crane is ment for moving hives and lifting supers off the hive. Thats where your back is saved. Cant lift supers off a hive with a bobcat

Can you lift off supers with this? I thought it only picked up the pallets. Would like to see if you could pick up 4 hives on a pallet like a fork lift also.

OK Re watched the video and it can take off supers. http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/1/iNldJFumKzw

Ian
12-24-2010, 09:11 PM
cool eh?

no it cant lift 4 double pallets, but 2 double pallets easily

jjgbee
12-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Again I will bring up the fact that there are a lot of used Payne, Kelly and easy loaders setting around. Before the fork lift, they were all that folks used. The price would be around $3,000.00 not $20,000.00. I built my Payne for less than $3,000.00. Heck, I remember when we made beek forklifts out of old Jeeps and some of those are still being used today. OH, I forgot this younger generation has to buy everything NEW right out of the box.

loggermike
12-29-2010, 10:00 PM
And a Payne loader can load a truck pretty fast if need be....lol
http://pic80.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1011/3600070/7409829/266124389.jpg

SPRUCE BEE
12-29-2010, 11:33 PM
And a Payne loader can load a truck pretty fast if need be....lol
http://pic80.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1011/3600070/7409829/266124389.jpg

LM,

A smoker fire? :eek::no::ws
That was pretty neat getting the water chopper in the pic.

SPRUCE BEE

loggermike
12-30-2010, 08:31 AM
The fire started on the edge of the highway just over the mountain. We assume a tossed cigarette.
The hives have bottom boards and were on pallets(the type made to hold hives with bottoms).BUT they were not all supered up the same height and some were splits. Using the forklift in this emergency would have been a nightmare.
(by the way -all the pallets burned up)

I find the boom loaders more versatile and allows more flexibility in management.

On the other hand I sank a boom truck down to the bed last week in a muddy field.The forklift would have allowed me to park the truck on solid ground and run in 2 pallets at a time.

To go from bottom boards to clip pallets requires a lot of changes in management. My current set up is a compromise.


Just a few thoughts FWIW

Ian
12-31-2010, 04:42 PM
>>OH, I forgot this younger generation has to buy everything NEW right out of the box

I dont see why it really matters. Its a machine, its modified to be used in a beekeeping operation, and it works very well. Its costly, but the expense is justified by its ease of use and efficiencies it brings to the operation. Only the operator can justify the cost of ones purchases.
New, well, ya, its available. Bring a Payne loader over and see if you can keep up to me in a bee yard shifting boxes.

Perhaps the cost of efficiency is something the younger generation can justify easier. We have a lifetime ahead of us,

Dont get me wrong, I have a 65 year old spinner, that needs to be replaced, and a honeyhouse that needs to be new, and an extractor that needs to be replaced. Lots of places to put the money. The trick is to put the money where it pays back the most benefit.

Last season I didnt lift a single box. how many beekeepers around can say that? How many old beekeepers look back and reflect "only if I had a machine that would help with the lifting".

HarryVanderpool
12-31-2010, 05:25 PM
Ian is right in that the EZ loader runs circles around any other loader.
The only way to realize this is to take the controls and try it yourself.
With the Payne or Kelly, there is SOOOOO much enertia to deal with and leveling is a nightmare compared with pushing a button for 1 1/2 second.
The EZ loader is a nuckle boom. This allows you to pick up a hive and "plunge" in between a row of trees. Very handy.
The ability to furl the EZ loader is a major blessing.
Folks with standard booms that come from the West to visit me have to drive an additional 16 miles because their booms cannot clear two railroad tressles. The EZ loader slips under those tressles with room to spare.

With all of that said, I have a friend with a large Kelly just like Peter Fonda's and I have used it many times while working with them. They love it and are used to it and it's paid for.

Most of my moves are with a forklift, but I will never, EVER get rid of my EZ loader.
Once you get used to having it around, can't imagine beekeeping without it.

AND its paid for. :P

wabeeman
01-01-2011, 11:01 AM
Happy New Year all!

Here's a link to photos of a boom I built for myself after using a Kelly loader for several years.
http://picasaweb.google.com/wabeeman/HiveLoader#

It has several "features" built in based on my own and other beeks horror stories.
-It telescopes down for transport. I also use this feature to dismount from the truck. I just back into the barn, raise the boom, chain it to the rafters, pull two pins, retract the boom - which raises it off the truck bed- unplug the cord (I almost always remember to do this :doh:) and pull away. Including unbolting the cradle from the cab guard it takes about 4 minutes.
-The boom slides in the mount. My solution to a leveling system. Sliding the boom back counterbalances which helps a bit on uneven ground. Since I must climb up on the truck bed and manually slide the boom I rarely do this opting instead to just push harder or find flatter ground. I have used this feature several times for tight spots where I had to set bees amongst trees or other obsticles.
-It has a 16 ft reach (two 8' lengths of barn door track) which is often a foot or two short, something that doesn't happen with a swinger or bobcat.
-It is built with off the shelf parts. Grainger, Napa, Northern Tool & the local hardware store were my parts sources. If I had to special order a part I found another alternative (because that would inevitably be the part that breaks). Everything else I fabricated in such a way that it could be easily repaired by any welding shop.
-The current winch I built (OK, the motor wasn't off the shelf but my Napa store got it for me in two days). I went through several iterations of this but ended up building my own because I could customize line speed. ATV winches are too slow (when the flood waters are 15' ABOVE you and just about to top the dike :eek:). If I were to build one today I'd probably use a bigger warn winch with wireless remote. It would simplify things a lot and be cheaper than building my own albeit at the expense of customizing line speed.
-Capacity? Well...not real sure. It can load a stack of six honey packed westerns, or 4 deeps, so something over 300#. To load hives I first stack two double deep colonies, then load both on the truck. With 16' of reach you get a lot of torque/tipping on the truck, but as the truck gets loaded things even out. I suppose a creative person could rig some stabilizers but it's just something I didn't want to deal with :scratch:. If I know me, and I do, if it's not simple I won't use it.
I built this loader in 2002 and just got done with some wear and tear modifications so it has worked pretty well. I hadn't given much thought to cost until another beek asked about my building one for him but I sat down and figured this boom, in this configuration, would run around $8000 including mounting on his truck. (I never had to tell him that because in the mean time he came across an old Kelley boom for a VERY good price...free :p)
I don't have any written plans, just a few sketches, and the pictures in the fog between my ears, but if anyone were wanting to put together a loader like this I'd be happy to email with you.

EastSideBuzz
01-02-2011, 11:44 PM
So I have one of these https://www.dadant.com/catalog/images/M00318-in-use.jpg

And one of these http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MannLake1.JPG

But, I am looking to get one of these this summer http://www.materiel-apiculture.fr/la-grue-api-culture or this one http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda#p/u/1/iNldJFumKzw Need to figure out where to get one.

Here is a good thread to read http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247787

S&H
01-03-2011, 12:26 AM
Was it your intention to redirect to this selfsame thread? Just curious... :)

Brooklyn
01-03-2011, 09:52 AM
EastSideBuzz

I am trying to work out the details to be the north American distributor of this and many more products in the near future. The patten owners are from Germany.

Check this link out http://www.youtube.com/user/apijuneda

Brooklyn

EastSideBuzz
01-07-2011, 12:04 AM
Was it your intention to redirect to this selfsame thread? Just curious... :)

Nope. I had 2 threads open and posted it in the wrong one. That is why there are two identical posts. Sorry. :doh:


EastSideBuzz

I am trying to work out the details to be the north American distributor of this and many more products in the near future. The patten owners are from Germany.

Brooklyn

Let me know what you come up with. If the price is not to huge I would be interested in one.

dgl1948
01-07-2011, 05:33 PM
I am wondering if anyone has made the lifting braket like a truck mounted crane uses that would work on the forks of a bobcat. It would have to work much like the clam shell scoop that some excavating cranes use. Lower the unit and it would realease to grip the hive, lift and a clamping action firmly hold the hive, and set down and it then would release again.

Ian
01-08-2011, 01:57 PM
til you bounce and it lets go!

dgl1948
01-10-2011, 07:35 AM
Ian, I see your point on that one. I put this out there as some of the best inventions I have seen in the farming industry come from these front line users. I have used a boom that attaches to forks almost making the machine a crane. Just looking for someone to improve my idea so that one machine could be more multi use.

Ian
01-10-2011, 03:05 PM
I lift barrels with something like that, with my skidder. Over rough ground I have to be careful not to bounce !!

jjgbee
01-16-2011, 04:15 PM
The Payne loader levels in all directions with the touch of a hyd lever and and raises 30 inches. They are somewhat idiotproof. These forign models just do not look strong enough. The bending moment in their joints leave no room for error. The pivot on a Payne is 3inch by 8 inch tall. I think some folks are comparing a 22 ft Payne with these forign jobs that have a reach of 14 ft. My Payne was cut down to 14 ft and had the strength to lift 600 lb close to the bed.
That said, I have a friend who bought the Aussi machine and he is a great welder. He just feels the versatility in close quarters is worth the price.

Ian
01-17-2011, 01:43 PM
my reach is 16 feet with a max lift of 300 kg in all directions

I dont know much about the Payne loader. Where is it built? Who sells them?

EastSideBuzz
09-25-2012, 10:38 AM
With the Payne or Kelly, there is SOOOOO much enertia to deal with and leveling is a nightmare compared with pushing a button for 1 1/2 second.

I have a boom on my truck. It is nice to lift a hive on and off moving a couple between yards. But, loading up 40 takes quite a bit of time compared to my partner who uses a Moffat truck mounted fork lift. I am looking to get a Swinger for myself and will probably use both for a while.

I tried to use my boom it to lift suppers and found that it is easier and quicker to just lift them. I am sure if you have lifting issues these things are great but, it is way slower then just lifting them. Maneuvering the truck into the yard to work them with the lift would be an issue.

I envy the guy that can get an EZ Loader but, it takes time to lift 40 hives onto a truck and then they come out booming because they are mad that you have lifted them. Iit is much nicer to be sitting 3-4 feet away on a forklift then to be 6 inches away with them at chest level crawling all over you.

Loading a truck for moving a whole yard into almonds or fruit is for forklifts. Moving a couple between yards or for a small guy then not so sure. I think the price point needs to be 40 and above and 40 and below one 16ft truck load.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?273971-Aj100

wglord
09-26-2012, 06:55 AM
Hey guys, I have had an Ezy Loader for 6 years and it works well. It was not cheap and a pain to get to the US but as I told my wife it is cheaper than a back operation and I am a one man show. How are you guys powering your Ezy-loader? My mechanic hates second batteries so we put a high capacity battery in my F 250 and I rev up the motor. I just hate to leave the motor running while I run the loader as the Ford drinks gas but the loader needs the power.

Ian
09-26-2012, 05:29 PM
I run an additional battery separated with an isolator. I see no trouble with this, its done with RVs just about everywhere.
I like this set up, as the battery will charge as I run the truck, but only the loader battery is drawn from when the truck is off.
Get your truck set up with a good alternator.

HarryVanderpool
09-27-2012, 07:22 PM
How are you guys powering your Ezy-loader? My mechanic hates second batteries so we put a high capacity battery in my F 250 and I rev up the motor.

Tell your mechanic to go fly a kite and then purchace two high capacity utility batteries. Les Schwab calls them, "school bus batteries". DO NOT USE DEEP CYCLE!
With them wired in parallel, I can completly load or unload my truck without running the engine other than to move the truck.
My F-450 has an upfitter connection in the fuses under the hood that turns on when the engine actually starts.
Not when the key is on, but when the engine is actually running.
From that point you can turn on a continous duty relay that connects your auxillery batteries to your truck batteries.
Maybe your F250 has this point as well. (Don't ask your mechanic; ask Ford)
I really like the idea of arranging your hives in a keyhole style in honey yards.
Then when you go to pull honey you can pull the truck in and pull honey with the boom.
Do you want to have your truck running the entire time? Of course not.
Good luck!