Making Recessed Handles

[grd1984]

I'm in the process of building some hives right now and was wondering how people make those nice half round recessed hand holds in their supers like in the link below. I can't think of a good way of doing it. Thanks a lot!

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=265

[Ted n Ms]

I make mine on the table saw with a moulding head cutter that i got from sears years ago. I took the blades and ground a new profile on them. Put the hive together before you cut the handles because of kick back.

[berkshire bee]

there have been long discussions in the past about it. You might try doing a search. Different people had different ideas as far as how to do it. Here's one thread on the topic
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224379&highlight=cutting+hand+holds

[StevenG]

grd1984...
I too have tried several different ways to make those nice hand holds in the deeps... But I noticed almost all the "big boys" (and girls) nail cleats on the ends of their deeps... so on one batch of deeps I used a dado 3/4" wide, dadoed a simple hand hold, then nailed a cleat above it, all the way across the end of the deep...on both ends. The bottom of the cleat is flush with the top of the hand hold. After using that deep, I've done that to all mine... for me anyway, much better purchase for my hand to get fingers into the hand hold and then have that extra 3/4 - 1" cleat for handling.

I use scrap lumber to make the cleats... and that construction process is also faster. At least for me...
Regards,
Steven

[magnet-man]

Steven, I like your idea about the cleats. One thought I have kicked around but never put into practice is to use two cleats. One near the top and one near the bottom. The placement of the cleats would leave a 1/2 gap between the top cleat and the bottom cleat when the boxes are stacked. This would give enough of a gap to get a hive tool in to pry the boxes apart with out damaging the box itself. My thought are to make the cleats out of a more durable wood or maybe the new plastic/wood deck boards. Of course this would require a custom top. A custom top shouldn't be a problem since if you are making boxes you are also likely making tops.

[heaflaw]

I set my table saw to cut 1/2 inch depth. Then, raised & lowered the super up and down on it about 10 times. I used a wood chisel to cut out what was left. Not very professional looking, but the bees don't seem to mind.

[PerryBee]

I saw a youtube video yesterday on this very topic. Georgiabee.com (a guy by the name of John Pluta ???- type in his name on youtube) He used a circular saw set at 15 degrees and did them quickly by hand. Not too sure if this is a very safe way of doing it and it looked to be hard on the saw but it was quick and did the job. As always, Safety First.

Perry

[TwT]

there easy to make, lets see if I can explaine > I cut mine on a table saw with a regular blade, not a dado. what I first do is lay two 2x4's about 12" long on both sides of the blade with ridge fence set at 3 1/2 inches from blade, set hive body on the 2x4's centered on saw blade, clamp hive body to ridge fence, start saw and raise saw blade until you hear it hit the hive body, as soon as it touches the wood raise blade just one revolution from that point, then leave blade raised just that one revolution then start turning you angle adjustment all the way till it is at 45 degree's then turn back straight up and raise blade another revolution up and repeat angle like before, it takes my table saw 4 raises to cut factory hand hold. hope this is easier to understand than it was to try to explain.

[honeyman46408]

Ted
I dont know if us old geezers have enough time to do it like that :lookout:

[StevenG]

You know the old saying, There's more than one way to skin a cat. :lookout:
And as most recently posted somewhere on this forum, you get 5 beeks together, you'll get 7 different opinions. Now, I've already given you mine, just a sec, let me go get my other one! :lpf:

I keep looking for the quickest, easiest, most time efficient way to do things, that will work in the bee yard. Not always successful, but I'm at the stage in life i don't want labor intensive in my bee equipment. Maybe in some things for the grandkids, but not the bee equipment.

Regarding the comment about two cleats, I've seen pictures in bee books and magazines where several beeks, commercial i think, used two cleats. you can see them on the photographs. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work, and perhaps there is an advantage to it. So why not?

I tried my hand at making telescoping lids one time... my equipment turned out not to be standard even in my own apiary, a couple of different sizes. And it took longer to do than simply buy the telescoping covers and assemble them. Cost almost as much too. Sigh... do you also get tired of learning things the hard way? :scratch:

Now, we think we'll never sell out...but you never know. The first time I kept bees, I hadn't plan to sell out, but an unanticipated move came up, and I had to sell. The nice thing was, all my equipment was standard commercially made. Very easy to describe and sell. So I'm building now in such a way that when I get to the point I can no longer keep bees, and my kids or grandkids aren't interested, everything is standard and should sell easily. You just never know. Cleats and such don't detract from standard, and can actually be shown to be a benefit.

Now, where did I put that other opinion? :lpf:
Regards,
Steven

[TwT]

Ted
I dont know if us old geezers have enough time to do it like that :lookout:

hm I know, that why I only have 2 on each of the long sides, easy to tell me equipment, lazy beek here :p:D

[kenpkr]

Here's the link to John Pluta's video. He makes it look fairly easy-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWigil-kioc

[swamprat]

I seen in an old bee mag.wear a guy made a ramp to slide boards down on saw blade to cut handholds

[BeeCurious]

This is Off Topic but:

Take a look at the heat loss at the hand holds in this IR photo taken by "Swobee"

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb168/Midwest_photo/?action=view&current=HivesDec22007.jpg

Any boxes I make will have nice, warm (and easy) cleats attached to them...

[fafrd]

Very interesting picture, BeeCurious. Also interesting that the lower handles do not show a corresponding level of heat loss. Would you assume that this is because the cluster (and the heat) is in the upper hive body and so the lower body is much colder?

Seems to me that embedded handles for honey supers is a non-issue but if you live in an area with cold winters and are worried about heat retention, embedded handles in hive bodies is something to think twice about...

-fafrd

[waynesgarden]

The photos are look dramatic but I guess I would wonder, in the greater scheme of things, if the heat lost through the handholds amounts to a hill of beans. The photos seem to indicate that some sort of insulating tape where the boxes meet would be needed as much or more than doing something about the handholds.

I looked at some of the other photos and the picture of the footprint in the snow makes it look as if the earth below the snow was on fire.

Wayne

[ACBEES]

I made some of my own hive bodies and supers last year. Used cleats made out of scrap. A little glue and an air nailer and you have a way to pick your boxes up. Can't get much faster, cheaper or easier than that. Be sure when attaching cleats you leave enough room for the telescoping cover to fit down over the box. I learned that lesson the hard way:doh:

[F.Woodside]

Another way is to build a ramp at 37 degrees, set the super side on it, and slide towards the fence. The blade should be tipped at 17 degrees to create a square shoulder on the top. A copemaster sawblade from a coping machine[ basically a 10" sawblade}, makes it that much easier. I can post a picture if that would help clarify the process, but it's easy, safe, and fast.

[F.Woodside]

I should add your sliding along a perpendicular fence to the regular fence.The sawblade hits sideways, giving you the scoop. The ramp provides the graduated entrance of the sawblade, so you get the tapered scoop. It's not as complicated as I make it sound.

[waynesgarden]

Here's the link to John Pluta's video. He makes it look fairly easy-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWigil-kioc

Saw blades are not designed for that sort of lateral force. Nor are circular saws designed to be pushed sideways with your knee.

I'm glad it's worked for him and (I assume) that he's managed to keep all his parts but it doesn't seem like a safe use of the tool.

By the way, Ted n Ms, the molding head cutter that was recommended in an old thread seem to have been discontinued by Sears. Any idea of an off-the-shelf replacement that I might look at? I'm not a machinist and can't reshape my own.

Wayne

[F.Woodside]

Actually, the sawblade provided with with the copemaster is intended for lateral force, and for cutting sideways.The skillsaw trick seems dangerous and time consuming, and that blade won't stand up to too much of that.

[Ted n Ms]

By the way, Ted n Ms, the molding head cutter that was recommended in an old thread seem to have been discontinued by Sears. Any idea of an off-the-shelf replacement that I might look at? I'm not a machinist and can't reshape my own.

Wayne
I saw some on EBAY not long ago. Don't seem to be any on right now. Keep checking on EBAY.:)
I'm not a machinist either, but it's easy to take a grinder and grind a new shape on the cutter blade. Then finsh it off with a flat file.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

I have a great system for making recessed handles that are just like the commercial ones. I don't sell them, but will share with you if you want to know. Requires a 71/4 skill saw, two welding clamps or 2 "C" clamps, and a very simple jig that you build. It will cost about 50 cents to make the jig. After you make the jig, you can make that pretty hand hold in about 30 seconds. Send a self addressed stamped long envelope to P.O. Box 27, Park City Ky, 42160. and I will send you the instructions. No Charge. I just like to help bee keepers. cchoganjr

[jbw]

Mr Hogan,

Would it be possible to put that information here on the forum so we all don't have to send addressed envelopes. Best to use the technology if we can today to save on postage costs.

Thanks,

Jack

[doc25]

I think a router would do a handy job at this. If you make a template at the desired angle you could just drop it on the box and rout.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

To JBW..... I will put the info on this when I return to Kentucky in about 2 weeks. I haven't tried, and don't know if you can put attachments on this forum, (I am not the best computer driver in the neighborhood) so it may be best if anyone wants to get the instructions with the color photos and drawings of the process, to e-mail me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com I will send it to you.
I NEVER charge for anything I do for beekeepers.
cchoganjr

[sarge74]

I made 4 rectangular frames or jigs to use with my table saw and a 3/4" dado blade. The jigs are the following dimensions (inside dimensions!!!) that way you can use whatever scrap lumber you have available. 10 3/8x20 1/2 for deep sides, 10 3/8x18 for deep fronts and backs, 7 3/8x20 1/2 for medium sides and 7 3/8x18 for medium fronts and backs. Center the blade in the appropriate jig and clamp the jig to the fence, set dado depth to 1/2". Place one end of work piece against end of jig while holding the other end up at a 45 degree angle with the side of work piece pressed up against the side of the jig. Lower the piece onto the blade until bottomed out, slide forward and back. Raise the work piece slide to the other side of the jig, Lower onto blade and slide forward and back and you are done. This gives you a professional looking handle that is 6x1 1/2 " and 1/2" deep. Yesterday I cut 80 handles in about 20 minutes. I know it's confusing but my daughter has my lap-top with the photos with her right now. If anyone is interested let me know and I will e-mail the photos to you.

Sarge74

[Eaglerock]

They use a very expensive router bit.

[Chick]

I have used the Dado and found that I start the cut 1" from the center, and move 1" past the center. I complete the box, and then cut the handles. I clamp a board on the back of the table saw, so that is where I start the cut.

[Hevyduty]

I built a jig to make recessed hand holes that look just like the big boys. The boxes slide down a short ramp onto a saw blade. the shape of the ramp controls the hole profile. I cut the hole in one pass using a two wing dado blade as the primary cutter backed with the standard outside dado blade. I tried many blades before deciding on the 2 wing cutter. this makes a very profesional looking cut.

[fafrd]

Hevyduty,

can you post pictures? (both of the handles and the jig)

How long does it take you to cut each handle once the jig is set up?

thanks,

fafrd

[Hevyduty]

Fafrd, I will get pictures tomorow morning and send. As to how long does it take, I just drop the assembled box in the jig and push it 3 inches and flip over to get the other end . I'm a bit lazy and only cut the ends. I spend more time moving boxes into and out of the shop than the time required to cut the hand holes.